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Dec 2021
11:19am, 3 Dec 2021
11,256 posts
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jda
Starmer doesn't have much conviction or identity. IMO. Largely stemming from Brexit, but seeming to run deeper than that. Other than "not Tory" I really don't know what a vote for Starmer means.
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Dec 2021
11:41am, 3 Dec 2021
8,236 posts
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TeeBee
I'm in Twickenham and proud to live in a London borough. I voted for Khan and we have a lib Dem mp and council. I think those over the water in Richmond (same borough, different constituency) are more likely to quote their Surrey credentials than we are to use Middx except when we're mandated to in out dated online forms that insist you include your postal county.
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Dec 2021
12:25pm, 3 Dec 2021
18,760 posts
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Chrisull
jda - I agree, but I think this stems back to Ed Miliband as well. My point earlier on Labour not knowing which direction to bend in, so they're simply left adrift in this wishy washy no mans land. Focus groups tell them what is unpopular, so they stay away from those areas. But the result is, as we see, this what do they stand for?
Are they for Brexit/against Brexit?
Are they for freedom of movement/against freedom of movement?
Are they for stronger action on climate change/against stronger action?
And plenty more questions besides.
The opinion polls show voters don't really know either.
Burnham himself on Twitter has pretty much admitted if he was in Starmer's shoes he would be in a similar position and not be able to be anywhere near as outspoken as he is now. (and pre 2015 he was a pretty useless leadership candidate - Corbyn got in as much to the inadequacy of all others on display, it's only afterwards that he started generating support) Khan is , as others have said unpopular outside zones 1-3, plus his skin colour/religion make him very unpopular with the white racists, who while not a majority, constitute a sadly influential minority bloc of any vote.
BUT It is more than just a leadership thing now (although a good leader would definitely improve things), the whole "culture" of the Labour party is defined by focus groups, by the backroom staff (witness the leaked anti-Corbyn messages), and this kind of aversion to making any big statements about anything. Even Corbyn's red letter policies weren't that radical. "Free broadband for everyone" and "Cancel tuition fees" would happily sit on any Liberal democrat manifesto, in fact the latter did once.
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Dec 2021
1:19pm, 3 Dec 2021
81,585 posts
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swittle
Wasn't Old Bexley & Sidcup Edward Heath's seat, so many years ago?
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Dec 2021
1:28pm, 3 Dec 2021
15,858 posts
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rf_fozzy
"I really don't know what a vote for Starmer means"
Given you don't live in the Holborn and St Pancras constituency, you won't ever vote *for* Keir Starmer.
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Dec 2021
1:30pm, 3 Dec 2021
18,761 posts
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Chrisull
swits - yes it was.
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Dec 2021
1:43pm, 3 Dec 2021
11,260 posts
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jda
Very good fozzy, but if I vote for the local labour candidate and he gets in, he will be supporting Starmer's policies loyally, so it comes to much the same thing.
Admittedly, hell will have frozen over, which is probably more of a concern, but the flying pigs will be fun to watch.
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Dec 2021
1:46pm, 3 Dec 2021
25,868 posts
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Johnny Baublesbonbon
I would suggest:
You can trust us on the economy
You can trust us on taxation - we will make sure that the tax burden is spread equitably
We will tackle poverty instead of creating it
We aren't corrupt
We will focus on competent management to undo the damage wrought over the past 11 years
The NHS is safe with us
We will govern for the whole country
Brexit - we will work to improve current arrangements across a range of potential choke points, including asylum seekers. No mention of getting back in the SM or CU at this stage. No mention of Rejoin. I personally find this one hard to swallow but if Labour want to broaden their appeal they will have to bite the bullet until all the old farts have aged out, all the Brexit bollocks has finally come home to roost and a convincing majority look to rejoin in "some form".
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Dec 2021
1:46pm, 3 Dec 2021
40,418 posts
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Merry Christmas and Happy NewG(rrr)
I'm assuming jda meant "I really don't know what a vote for [in a general election, the Labour party, as led by...] Starmer means"?
And that is quite a relevant problem for Labour and for their prospective voters.  G
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Dec 2021
1:48pm, 3 Dec 2021
40,419 posts
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Merry Christmas and Happy NewG(rrr)
Sorry x-post jda.
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