Jun 2020
9:23am, 14 Jun 2020
8,698 posts
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simbil
For that reason, statues of people are outmoded. Perhaps there is a way to celebrate and remember the noteable actions someone did without pretending they were saints? |
Jun 2020
9:45am, 14 Jun 2020
3,001 posts
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TomahawkMike
There is already 10ft Margaret Thatcher statue waiting to be installed, in a public place, in the centre of Grantham.
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Jun 2020
9:47am, 14 Jun 2020
2,515 posts
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B Rubble
There is a statue of Thatcher in the Members” Lobby. There was a campaign 10 years ago for a statue of Blair but the tory’s incandescent rage put paid to that. I think the range of feelings represented by the reactions of those two characters demonstrates why we shouldn’t have any statues at all.
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Jun 2020
9:49am, 14 Jun 2020
2,516 posts
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B Rubble
Sorry x post TM. I didn’t know that about Grantham. That’s not going to last long in the current climate. |
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Jun 2020
9:49am, 14 Jun 2020
8,699 posts
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simbil
Yes, that will be contentious. I guess the intention of a statue has to be considered. If the intention of the Churchill statue was to capture and celebrate the people and spirit that lead to victory in Europe, the state could have commissioned a piece of art instead. It's not like Chruchill single handedly won the war after all. Banksy has an idea of what could happen to the Colston statue here: bristolpost.co.uk I like that, a way of updating it rather than erasing it. |
Jun 2020
9:50am, 14 Jun 2020
2,558 posts
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Fellrunning
I'll wager that before last weekend hardly anyone, including me, outside Bristol (and possibly quite a few who live there) didn't know who Colston was. Certainly as far as Priti Patel and the cohorts of right wing columnists were concerned it might as well have been a statue of Winnie The Pooh. I also doubt that if you'd asked the right wingers in Trafalgar Square who Nelson was they (mostly) wouldn't have been able to give a sensible answer. I have someone staying with me (Lockdown legally) who was a victim of human trafficking. I'm far more interested in stopping that than I am about the dunking of an old statue in Bristol harbour. Beyond entertainment value it seems a waste of energy getting worked up about it. That's just my personal view. Others will no doubt differ. |
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Jun 2020
9:53am, 14 Jun 2020
8,700 posts
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simbil
Agree FR, statues are just focal points for action and have become a bit of a distraction from the underlying issues.
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Jun 2020
9:54am, 14 Jun 2020
2,377 posts
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Canute
I consider that the difference between 21st century values and those of the 18th and 19th century reflect an advance of human nature. We are essentially social creatures who live on a fragile planet. We need to continue to develop our values if we and our world are to flourish. We cannot ignore the past as it provides evidence of the consequences of our behaviour. There are many things to celebrate in human history, but we need to recognise the things that took us in the wrong direction. Statues are harmful if they are presented as a mindless celebration. Two outstanding features of British history were the industrial revolution and the development of the welfare state. Both reflect well on human nature but both were imperfect. We need a new industrial revolution that recognises the fragility of our planet. We need a welfare state that is better suited to creating a satisfying role for all members of our society. In the course of human history the disruption provided by major catastrophes, including epidemics, has precipitated change: sometimes a regression; sometimes an advance. CV-19 is a disruption that will force change upon us. We need to ensure that we do not regress more deeply into the populism that had been rearing its head in the past few years. We need to ensure that we seize this opportunity to build on the progress that emerged in the aftermath of WW2 and the ensuring Cold War. We need a new industrial revolution and a new welfare state that reflect the evolving needs of humanity and our planet. |
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Jun 2020
9:54am, 14 Jun 2020
2,559 posts
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Fellrunning
Double negative there. "Didn't know" should be replaced by knew. Where's my proof reader. Tsk
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Jun 2020
9:57am, 14 Jun 2020
49,798 posts
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Diogenes
I was thinking yesterday that some (much?) of the blame for the intolerance and division we see in our society today has its roots in the Britain created by Thatcherism in the 80s. No such thing as society, every man for himself, survival of the fittest and the systematic undermining of the welfare state at a time where traditional industries were dying. We have a lost generation raising ignorant kids whose disaffection is exploited by the privileged ruling class.
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