|
Jan 2020
12:58pm, 9 Jan 2020
9,941 posts
|
larkim
Perhaps now we're past the point where being "pro" or "anti" Brexit can be expected to have a meaningful impact on whether Brexit happens or not, debate will slip back into a less polarised form? Brexit fundamentally asked people to take one side or another, and that's influenced the attitude of both sides, and removed any nuance.
Clearly the Brexit "tinge" will last for a while - policies being "because of Brexit" or outcomes being the "consequence of Brexit". But debate as to whether a particular social policy etc should be implemented won't have to fall along party or Brexit lines, and therefore we might see a return to less polarisation of views, less of the "us and them".
I live in hope!
|
|
Jan 2020
1:03pm, 9 Jan 2020
1,986 posts
|
Canute
Larkim, I hope you are right.
Jda, I agree.
However I am not sure that the belief that damaging the "opposition" is in itself a win, is entirely unrelated to dishonesty and the undermining of civilized debate. Emotion colours the evaluation of information. In the face of mis-information about ‘others’, emotions rooted in the desire to protect self and kin can rapidly turn into vicious rejection of ‘others’ even at the cost of hurting self and kin. We are not intrinsically stupid but the inclinations that save us from stupidity can be derailed quite easily.
|
|
Jan 2020
1:05pm, 9 Jan 2020
25,267 posts
|
Wriggling Snake
You indeed live in hope, everything will be Brext related for years and years, maybe it will wind up when everyone who was involved in it's instigation is gone, that'll be when Bjo calls it a day....when will he be fed up with being PM, 2 parliaments, 3 elections wins.....I think he'll go while it looks good, unless Labour are in total disarray, which is distinctly possible.
|
|
Jan 2020
1:19pm, 9 Jan 2020
9,942 posts
|
larkim
I'm not doubting that Brexit will continue visibly for ages yet. But equally every debate can't be handled now in terms of "This proposal is good, and if Brexit happens..."
So e.g. "We want to spend more on the NHS, and we can do this because if Brexit happens / doesn't happen...." becomes "We want to spend more on the NHS".
Where I hope we don't end up is with the govt suggesting a policy / insisting a policy is required with all the opposition having as their response "Well, if you hadn't taken us out of the EU..." Sometimes that will be appropriate.
|
|
Jan 2020
1:24pm, 9 Jan 2020
25,269 posts
|
Wriggling Snake
I would disagree, the attack of Bojo for ever more should be, you told us everything would be better. More money for the NHS, more money for the North, more money for public transport, more nurses, more police, more, more, more...all available, because, apparently, leaving was good.
|
|
Jan 2020
1:33pm, 9 Jan 2020
9,943 posts
|
larkim
But won't that play as just sore losers blaming everything that's wrong on Brexit? I'd agree that if it becomes self evident that Brexit isn't working, attacking Bojo because his judgement is shown to be demonstrably wrong is a fair comment.
In the post Brexit Britain though the opposition might find it challenging to actually tie negativity to Brexit - a bit like climate change, where winter storms, wet summers, australian wild fires can't on their own be simply tied to climate change. But collectively they start to paint a compelling picture that helps to form a mainstream view.
Overall economic performance of the UK in the next few years will be influenced by factors, including Brexit. Concluding whether Brexit is the main impact or not might actually be less straightforward to do than remainers (like me) assume?
|
|
Jan 2020
1:35pm, 9 Jan 2020
6,080 posts
|
jda
And likewise, brexiters have to find a scapegoat for their decisions which will be a mix of the EU and remainers.
|
|
Jan 2020
1:42pm, 9 Jan 2020
1,987 posts
|
Canute
WS,
However Brexit turns out, it think it would be better if it have never happened. However, far more poisonous than Brexit itself was the way in which it came about. The challenge is lancing that poison.
Nonetheless I do not think we are helpless pawns of BJ and his advisors. I am actually allowing myself to be a little optimistic that Labour might sort itself out and that on 4 years time we might have a decent challenger to BJ.
|
|
Jan 2020
4:05pm, 9 Jan 2020
3,695 posts
|
run free
Agree with everything you say jda. Also find there are many people who think one can simply move your business from the EU and do business with another country and we have been given plenty of time to do so.
|
|
Jan 2020
4:24pm, 9 Jan 2020
2,510 posts
|
J2R
Very good posts, Canute and jda. I completely agree with Canute that the post-truth world we have ended up in as a result of Brexit (and Trump) is actually a more serious problem than Brexit itself.
I seriously doubt that politics will get any less polarised now that Brexit is definitely happening. For the vast majority of Brexiters it was all about 'winning', whatever the costs, but now they have 'won', they have nothing else, no viable policy or way forward. So it will continue to be all about sticking it to the losers, which is what we are seeing. There is no attempt to get to grips with reality, just more dog-whistling for the base (the Erasmus programme jda mentioned being a case in point).
|
Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
