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Sep 2019
9:23am, 16 Sep 2019
15,219 posts
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Chrisull
The second prorogation is because Hilary Benn has messed up and left a loophole in his bill. In the event the WA is brought back and wins an initial vote, then there is no need to ask for a delay. In which case Boris can prorogue Parliament and we can crash out with no deal without the law being broken. Hopefully now MPs are aware of it, they won't fall for this ruse, but Stephen Kinnock is a dimwit, so I wouldn't put it past his cabal to vote for the WA.
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Sep 2019
9:25am, 16 Sep 2019
32,371 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
The problem is the Lib Dems can't get a majority gov't. Great that they are standing on a clear ticket of "Revoke A50" and I hope they get a lot of votes for it, but even if they got 20%, all they're going to do is split the Remain vote and let Tories back in.
I just wish the Remain parties would form a strong coalition.
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Sep 2019
9:27am, 16 Sep 2019
32,372 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Ah, thanks for explanation Chris. Makes sense - and Johnson could whip strongly, plus appeal to the "any deal better than No Deal" confusioninistas (that's my polite term for the MPs who probably genuinely want to prevent No Deal, but also are scared that by opposing Brexit will lose their local votes).
Hope there aren't enough of them to give Johnson any kind of success or room to wriggle.
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Sep 2019
9:29am, 16 Sep 2019
5,198 posts
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jda
Labour have always refused any idea of pacts or coalition. Mind you they aren't a remain party 
I'm not really a fan of Swinson's confrontational approach but she has to appeal to remainer Tories and slating Corbyn may be a good way to convince then they can vote for her.
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Sep 2019
9:32am, 16 Sep 2019
32,374 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Sooner we move to PR and intended coalitions, the better. Then it will be impossible for any government to take extreme positions because they will be limited by their internal coalition partners. G
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Sep 2019
9:33am, 16 Sep 2019
8,671 posts
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larkim
Given the madness of our politics at the moment, I hesitate to say this, but I cannot in a million years see Boris being able to secure a second prorogation after the return of parliament in October. That really would be an act of pure dictatorship.
The Benn loophole about the WA is intentional though, to allow Parliament to be seen to be giving it a reasonable chance and allowing enough support in the few days that we had of Parliament to be gathered. Whether it means we accede to the old May deal though I'm not sure - the Benn act requires the govt to put the deal forward, and I'm not sure politically how even Bojo could have the temerity to put back May's deal unamended when that deal includes the backstop etc.
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Sep 2019
9:42am, 16 Sep 2019
2,265 posts
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J2R
I would prefer the LibDems to have stuck to a policy of calling a 2nd referendum, but I have to say there's undoubtedly mileage in a slogan along the lines of 'make it stop' - and this is by far the most effective way to make it stop. The main campaign aim should be to make it clear to people how any kind of Brexit, particularly one without a deal, far from bringing the whole thing to a close, would just be the start of a long process far grimmer than anything we've been through yet.
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Sep 2019
10:08am, 16 Sep 2019
8,172 posts
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simbil
Brexit is going to end with some people being disappointed to some degree.
Libdems have decided that they will bitterly disappoint the people who want Brexit.
A compromise Brexit or a Brexit in name only would disappoint most people to a degree but probably only a small number would be bitterly disappointed.
A no deal Brexit will bitterly disappoint remainers and anyone caught up in the fall out.
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Sep 2019
10:16am, 16 Sep 2019
18,834 posts
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DeeGee
You need to decide which policy will disappoint most people.
Crashing out, or ignoring an opinion poll and keeping everything as it is.
DePfeffel has decided, Jo has decided. Corbyn's still muddying the waters.
Schroedingers Brexit, both in and out at the same time.
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Sep 2019
10:17am, 16 Sep 2019
5,199 posts
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jda
The overwhelming problem with a 2nd ref is basically the same problem with brexit in the first place - there is no credible leave option. As soon as labour start to negotiate some sort of withdrawal agreement they will come up against the same roadblock that leaving the SM+CU is awful for the UK (so much for a "jobs first brexit") and not leaving them is just a fake brexit. If they agree to the former then there's no reason why they shouldn't have agreed to May's WA at the outset.
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