Polarized training

91 watchers
Oct 2021
12:39pm, 27 Oct 2021
2,115 posts
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SailorSteve
J2R your “4 steps” breathing description (3887) chimes exactly with me.
Oct 2021
12:39pm, 27 Oct 2021
358 posts
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Bowman
@j2r
Yes, that´s my beliefs as well, basically.
Everything around training and data is fun though.
But when you describe it as you do, it also feels logic and healthy.
Oct 2021
1:31pm, 27 Oct 2021
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Canute
As I see it, Molly Seidel’s training is very close to what Lydiard would have recommended for a marathon runner. He placed a strong emphasis on base-building. Many of his famous proteges won gold medals at shorter distances, most famously Peter Snell. As I understand it, Lydiard’s shorter distance specialists did a lot of low intensity running augmented by some strides during base-building. Their hard sessions in the pre-race period were at higher intensity than Molly Seidel’s hard sessions. Molly did many of her harder session at ‘threshold level’ rather than in the anaerobic zone. Maybe that is sensible for a marathoner. However, I consider the crucial thing about Molly’s training was the base-building, and the large number of easy session even in the final 9 weeks before Tokyo.

I also strongly support the importance of training that allows continuity over a long period. Although Paula Radcliffe can probably look back with satisfaction on her running career, I think she could have achieved even more if she had included more easy sessions in her training.

I also endorse using breathing rate rather than HR to monitor effort. I too regard the 4 steps during each in-breath and 4 steps during the out breath as a useful indicator of low intensity. It is also important to train your brain. I recent wrote a Fetch blog on this topic fetcheveryone.com/blog/13360 and also covered similar ground in my Wordpress blog.
Oct 2021
1:54pm, 27 Oct 2021
359 posts
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Bowman
Interesting Canute, will try the breathing thing. Also the mental part is very helpful and can always be better.
Oct 2021
1:59pm, 27 Oct 2021
4,732 posts
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K5 Gus
Great blog there Canute, I enjoyed that and will try out some of those ideas/thoughts
jda
Oct 2021
2:35pm, 27 Oct 2021
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jda
Conversely I always breath 2-2 though I certainly can do 3-3 and probably 4-4 when running steady. In my case the aim (which IIRC is recommended in the JD book) was to develop a reliable rhythm. I'm doing exactly the same thing at 5k and marathon racing as I do when running easy, there's just a bit more or less snap in the stride. Towards the end of races I go to 2-1 breathing, if that happens too early I'm in trouble!
Oct 2021
2:51pm, 27 Oct 2021
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Canute
jda, I agree that cultivating the sensation of a reliable rhythm is very helpful. However, I think it takes a lot more experience to be able to estimate the right level of effort from the sensation of snap in the stride, than from breathing rate. Of course it is possible to use a HRM as a guide, though I find HR is too sensitive to other sources of stress. Also, for a person who is unfit, I think HR is an especially unreliable guide.
Oct 2021
3:57pm, 27 Oct 2021
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Brunski
I love these discussions and think over time I've developed knowledge that gives me a sustainable pattern of training and keeps me as competitive as I can be over a number of distances.

Firstly low HR training only works when you have decent volume. I see a lot of people running 80% 'easy/low HR' but only doing 20 or 30 miles a week. This means only 4-6 miles a week is taxing them. Personally I don't think that is enough to improve as the training load won't be all that high.

I first started with Hadd training over a winter, I remember clearly people commenting on my easy pace, but I was running 6 or 7 days a week, some doubles and some at higher intensity (the sub LT runs). After 8-12 weeks of this I had the aerobic base to do more and more and my easy runs got quicker and quicker. I sort of fell out of Hadd specific training but still try to maintain those easy runs and mix up the intensity a bit more.

Looking at that Molly Seidel training analysis chimes a lot with how I trained prior to my marathon, I don't run doubles but recently ran daily for over 300 days (before Covid struck 4-5 weeks before the London marathon) and very little of that was speed work. Toward the marathon I ran a long tempo on a Tuesday (just under threshold - so very Hadd based), and sometimes either a session on a Thursday or a threshold(ish) parkrun on Saturday. My Sunday long run is something I only really add when I'm training for something and that got more marathon specific as I got closer to the goal race.

I broadly use the training paces.

Recovery ~65% max

Easy ~70% max

Steasy' upto 75% max - some long runs/progressions end up here.

Tempo/threshold 85-90% max
Faster - parkruns, strides/short repeats.

Base building is mainly easy, some steasy and a little tempo.

Early training block increase long runs, more tempo.

Late training block, add in more threshold, some faster running, etc.

So I try and build the mileage first, then gradually add more intensity, before tapering the mileage but keeping the intensity.
SPR
Oct 2021
4:00pm, 27 Oct 2021
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SPR
I don't agree that easy training doesn't work on 20-30 miles a week.
SPR
Oct 2021
4:01pm, 27 Oct 2021
35,543 posts
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SPR
What matters is the relative training load for the individual.

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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