Polarized training
91 watchers
Oct 2021
12:39pm, 27 Oct 2021
2,115 posts
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SailorSteve
J2R your “4 steps” breathing description (3887) chimes exactly with me.
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Oct 2021
12:39pm, 27 Oct 2021
358 posts
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Bowman
@j2r Yes, that´s my beliefs as well, basically. Everything around training and data is fun though. But when you describe it as you do, it also feels logic and healthy. |
Oct 2021
1:31pm, 27 Oct 2021
2,460 posts
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Canute
As I see it, Molly Seidel’s training is very close to what Lydiard would have recommended for a marathon runner. He placed a strong emphasis on base-building. Many of his famous proteges won gold medals at shorter distances, most famously Peter Snell. As I understand it, Lydiard’s shorter distance specialists did a lot of low intensity running augmented by some strides during base-building. Their hard sessions in the pre-race period were at higher intensity than Molly Seidel’s hard sessions. Molly did many of her harder session at ‘threshold level’ rather than in the anaerobic zone. Maybe that is sensible for a marathoner. However, I consider the crucial thing about Molly’s training was the base-building, and the large number of easy session even in the final 9 weeks before Tokyo. I also strongly support the importance of training that allows continuity over a long period. Although Paula Radcliffe can probably look back with satisfaction on her running career, I think she could have achieved even more if she had included more easy sessions in her training. I also endorse using breathing rate rather than HR to monitor effort. I too regard the 4 steps during each in-breath and 4 steps during the out breath as a useful indicator of low intensity. It is also important to train your brain. I recent wrote a Fetch blog on this topic fetcheveryone.com/blog/13360 and also covered similar ground in my Wordpress blog. |
Oct 2021
1:54pm, 27 Oct 2021
359 posts
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Bowman
Interesting Canute, will try the breathing thing. Also the mental part is very helpful and can always be better.
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Oct 2021
1:59pm, 27 Oct 2021
4,732 posts
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K5 Gus
Great blog there Canute, I enjoyed that and will try out some of those ideas/thoughts
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Oct 2021
2:35pm, 27 Oct 2021
11,021 posts
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jda
Conversely I always breath 2-2 though I certainly can do 3-3 and probably 4-4 when running steady. In my case the aim (which IIRC is recommended in the JD book) was to develop a reliable rhythm. I'm doing exactly the same thing at 5k and marathon racing as I do when running easy, there's just a bit more or less snap in the stride. Towards the end of races I go to 2-1 breathing, if that happens too early I'm in trouble!
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Oct 2021
2:51pm, 27 Oct 2021
2,461 posts
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Canute
jda, I agree that cultivating the sensation of a reliable rhythm is very helpful. However, I think it takes a lot more experience to be able to estimate the right level of effort from the sensation of snap in the stride, than from breathing rate. Of course it is possible to use a HRM as a guide, though I find HR is too sensitive to other sources of stress. Also, for a person who is unfit, I think HR is an especially unreliable guide.
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Oct 2021
3:57pm, 27 Oct 2021
1,908 posts
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Brunski
I love these discussions and think over time I've developed knowledge that gives me a sustainable pattern of training and keeps me as competitive as I can be over a number of distances. Firstly low HR training only works when you have decent volume. I see a lot of people running 80% 'easy/low HR' but only doing 20 or 30 miles a week. This means only 4-6 miles a week is taxing them. Personally I don't think that is enough to improve as the training load won't be all that high. I first started with Hadd training over a winter, I remember clearly people commenting on my easy pace, but I was running 6 or 7 days a week, some doubles and some at higher intensity (the sub LT runs). After 8-12 weeks of this I had the aerobic base to do more and more and my easy runs got quicker and quicker. I sort of fell out of Hadd specific training but still try to maintain those easy runs and mix up the intensity a bit more. Looking at that Molly Seidel training analysis chimes a lot with how I trained prior to my marathon, I don't run doubles but recently ran daily for over 300 days (before Covid struck 4-5 weeks before the London marathon) and very little of that was speed work. Toward the marathon I ran a long tempo on a Tuesday (just under threshold - so very Hadd based), and sometimes either a session on a Thursday or a threshold(ish) parkrun on Saturday. My Sunday long run is something I only really add when I'm training for something and that got more marathon specific as I got closer to the goal race. I broadly use the training paces. Recovery ~65% max Easy ~70% max Steasy' upto 75% max - some long runs/progressions end up here. Tempo/threshold 85-90% max Faster - parkruns, strides/short repeats. Base building is mainly easy, some steasy and a little tempo. Early training block increase long runs, more tempo. Late training block, add in more threshold, some faster running, etc. So I try and build the mileage first, then gradually add more intensity, before tapering the mileage but keeping the intensity. |
Oct 2021
4:00pm, 27 Oct 2021
35,542 posts
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SPR
I don't agree that easy training doesn't work on 20-30 miles a week.
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Oct 2021
4:01pm, 27 Oct 2021
35,543 posts
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SPR
What matters is the relative training load for the individual.
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