Mar 2018
11:48am, 20 Mar 2018
2,718 posts
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Ninky Nonk
Take home message for me...
You can't summarise all training by three coarse zones.
E.g two examples of zone 1 training 4m recovery run 15miles 15secs per mile slower than marathon pace
Those two sessions are very different.
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Mar 2018
12:03pm, 20 Mar 2018
1,064 posts
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J2R
NN, I don't think it's just down to pace. The second of those would count as a long run rather than an easy run - i.e., something which stresses the system and which you need recovery from. For me, also, it would likely be a little above my first ventilatory threshold at that speed. I imagine I'd be at about 145bpm, where my VT1 is probably 137-139bpm. MP + 30 seconds I could do, I imagine.
Incidentally, what does that 15miles 15secs per mile slower than marathon pace workout do for you? I would be more inclined to do 10 miles at MP + 60 seconds then 5 miles at MP. But you run much faster than me, so I'm interested to know what works for you!
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Mar 2018
12:07pm, 20 Mar 2018
1,065 posts
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J2R
Incidentally, NN, Canova prefers to be known as 'Renato' rather than 'Rental', although I'm sure he would offer his services to you if you were prepared to pay the going rate .
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Mar 2018
12:12pm, 20 Mar 2018
63,487 posts
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Gobi
Been a while since I popped in
My training is based on mathematics and is very polarised, still suits me
My coaching methods vary for the athletes I work with as not all are created equal
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Mar 2018
1:30pm, 20 Mar 2018
12,420 posts
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Chrisull
Gobi, I know you coach others, but are you your only coach as well? You don't refer to another coach for your own training? And if that assumption is correct what came first for you.... coaching others or coaching yourself?
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Mar 2018
1:35pm, 20 Mar 2018
12,421 posts
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Chrisull
NN - excellent post - I will pick out one quote from it though:
"How you can see, the big "zones" of physiologists are too general for considering as basis for building an advanced training plan for top athletes."
Advanced training plan for top athletes, I'm not sure any of here are doing that. If I had a top athlete who had got the necessary aerobic base, I'd be drilling down way further, but even among the top athletes I know (and there are some good ones, but no elites), and are willing to listen to my advice, I'd say *none* of them have the necessary aerobic base in the first place.
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Mar 2018
1:48pm, 20 Mar 2018
2,595 posts
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jdarun
Don't disagree that many runners/clubs tend to go too hard, though it must also depend on how much training time they have. If you are running 6-7 times a week it would be insane to batter yourself every day. 2-3 times a week perhaps you can't/shouldn't do quite such a high proportion of easy running. Just wondering.
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Mar 2018
3:00pm, 20 Mar 2018
2,719 posts
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Ninky Nonk
J2r - the 15miles at mp+15 was just a random example to illustrate my point that two very different runs fall within zone 1 of seiler. See canova's post for benefit of each of his pace zones.
However kipchoge/kipsang regularly do 35km runs at just slower than mp.
Chrisull - are you really saying that when you coach you prescribe only 3 paces?
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Mar 2018
3:17pm, 20 Mar 2018
14,469 posts
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Fenners
Spot on Gobi. There is never going to be a one size fits all.
I’ve tried a few different methodologies with differing levels of ‘success’. The difference after six months of polarised is significant.
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Mar 2018
3:40pm, 20 Mar 2018
12,423 posts
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Chrisull
Nope - but the first thing is to get away from one pace, which is what I most commonly see.
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