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NN, I don't think it's just down to pace. The second of those would count as a long run rather than an easy run - i.e., something which stresses the system and which you need recovery from. For me, also, it would likely be a little above my first ventilatory threshold at that speed. I imagine I'd be at about 145bpm, where my VT1 is probably 137-139bpm. MP + 30 seconds I could do, I imagine.
Incidentally, what does that 15miles 15secs per mile slower than marathon pace workout do for you? I would be more inclined to do 10 miles at MP + 60 seconds then 5 miles at MP. But you run much faster than me, so I'm interested to know what works for you!
Incidentally, NN, Canova prefers to be known as 'Renato' rather than 'Rental', although I'm sure he would offer his services to you if you were prepared to pay the going rate .
Gobi, I know you coach others, but are you your only coach as well? You don't refer to another coach for your own training? And if that assumption is correct what came first for you.... coaching others or coaching yourself?
NN - excellent post - I will pick out one quote from it though:
"How you can see, the big "zones" of physiologists are too general for considering as basis for building an advanced training plan for top athletes."
Advanced training plan for top athletes, I'm not sure any of here are doing that. If I had a top athlete who had got the necessary aerobic base, I'd be drilling down way further, but even among the top athletes I know (and there are some good ones, but no elites), and are willing to listen to my advice, I'd say *none* of them have the necessary aerobic base in the first place.
Don't disagree that many runners/clubs tend to go too hard, though it must also depend on how much training time they have. If you are running 6-7 times a week it would be insane to batter yourself every day. 2-3 times a week perhaps you can't/shouldn't do quite such a high proportion of easy running. Just wondering.
J2r - the 15miles at mp+15 was just a random example to illustrate my point that two very different runs fall within zone 1 of seiler. See canova's post for benefit of each of his pace zones.
However kipchoge/kipsang regularly do 35km runs at just slower than mp.
Chrisull - are you really saying that when you coach you prescribe only 3 paces?
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).
Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.
Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.
First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )
Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.
Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 . vimeo.com
In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.
ted.com This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.
Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U
The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com
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