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Nov 2018
4:19pm, 30 Nov 2018
6,132 posts
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larkim
My thinking was, if I were to artificially increase my weight one day by, say, carrying a 5kg pack, I would inevitably run slower for an identical level of fitness, which on the race time calculators would report a lower VO2Max for me, despite me having the same VO2Max one day to the next.
Of course, that is entirely artificial so ignores any physiological impact of carrying 5kg extra real body weight for example, but that's where my head was at - I suppose it's easier to conceive of suddenly carrying more mass like that than it would be to think of carrying less mass one day to the next.
Is there something in the fact that VO2Max is the "Max" point, not just the total consumption of oxygen to burn the fuel across a specific activity? Or is that point null because the concept of running a 5k at PB pace means by definition your VO2Max is one of the key limiting factors?
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Nov 2018
4:23pm, 30 Nov 2018
6,133 posts
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larkim
Yes, I can see your point about looking at it for me - lowering weight would definitely increase speed, based on my efficiency / running economy etc.
You're pointing out effectively that the "real" race determinant is VO2Max x efficiency I suppose for a race which is limited by VO2Max, such as a 5k.
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Nov 2018
6:11pm, 30 Nov 2018
10,074 posts
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Badger
Certainly you'll see a lower VO2max estimation if you run wearing a pack, but fat is part of you, and as it's a part that doesn't contribute to running faster over shortish distances, more fat means genuinely lower VO2max. And yes that's the real determinant but I'm not going anywhere near the minefield that is the great running efficiency debate :). If you improve your form to be more efficient, you'd probably see higher VO2max values even if your muscles were completely unchanged.
I think the race-based VO2max calculations assume that you're going as fast as you can sustain over that distance, and VO2max is definitely a key limiting factor for that over a fair range of distances (not sprints, and not ultramarathons). The Firstbeat calculations are a bit more nuanced, as they will give you a value based on submaximal running.
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Nov 2018
8:21pm, 30 Nov 2018
6,135 posts
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larkim
So assuming some sort of bell curved distribution of efficiency across all runners, a 80kg male runner and a 50kg male runner achieving 19:00 for 5k would have the same VO2Max then? Interesting.
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Dec 2018
12:09pm, 1 Dec 2018
5,245 posts
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hillstrider
Thanks Gobi for your compliments and the link to VO2 age categories standards, very helpful.
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Dec 2018
12:25pm, 1 Dec 2018
65,497 posts
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Gobi
Pleasure.
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Dec 2018
12:45pm, 1 Dec 2018
13,693 posts
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Bazoaxe
Garmin recorded a new VO2 max of 57 today.
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Dec 2018
4:07pm, 1 Dec 2018
10,080 posts
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Badger
Mine gave me 54 for the first time today. That was running a mile PB, which might have had something to do with it. Again, so short that the time for HR to get near steady state plays a factor. Runalyze's internal calculation was 55 (up from 47 for this morning's parkrun) for that and about 77 for the 400 m a bit later. Er, no.
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Dec 2018
8:19pm, 4 Dec 2018
2,790 posts
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K5 Gus
Question on OHR :
It was cold up here in Scotland today, I had 3 layers on ( base, mid and jacket ) and forgot to wear my heart rate strap that I normally do ( as I distrust OHR ).
I wore my watch on top of these 3 layers, so I could see the screen, and I was amazed to see that it was giving HR data. It definitely wasn't cadence, and it resembled pretty much what I find with OHR, ie about 10-20 bpm higher than I'd expect.
So, surely the optical reader can't see thru 3 layers of clothing and read the blood pulsing thru my veins, so where was it getting it's figures from ?
Anyone else wear their OHR over clothing in winter and noticed this when not wearing a HR strap ?
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Dec 2018
8:22pm, 4 Dec 2018
13,718 posts
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Bazoaxe
Gus, Ive been rolling my sleeve up to keep skin contact. I have though found on colder days like today it doesnt read very accurately.
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Daniels Running Formula. The Definitive Wire.
Jul 2023