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Nov 2017
2:13pm, 28 Nov 2017
872 posts
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J2R
Good question, Brunski. Both here and on the polarized training thread, people have varied in which system they have used when talking about percentages of maximum heart rate, and the trouble is that the difference between the two can be so great as to make comparisons meaningless. For example, I would say I try to keep below 70% of my maximum heart rate for my easy runs. With the heart rate reserve calculation, that's 136bpm, but using straight HRmax, it's 122bpm, and that is a very significant difference. It would be good either if there were some canonical way in which these could be expressed on this thread, or at least if people could make it clear which they are talking about.
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Nov 2017
2:19pm, 28 Nov 2017
14,808 posts
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Dvorak
Maybe we need two threads, one for WHR and one for MHR? Schism! 
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Nov 2017
2:22pm, 28 Nov 2017
32,051 posts
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GlennR
Not really. 70% of WHR, 75% of MHR.
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Nov 2017
2:33pm, 28 Nov 2017
917 posts
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Flatlander
In my personal experience, using the WHR system to calculate zones fits better with what I achieve with different types of runs.
E.g., MHR zone 1 would require me to walk, whereas WHR gives me a jog.
That might be because my RHR is 48 and my MHR is probably about 185, which gives me wide enough zones in which to work.
However, like Doc Moye, I don't really train to HR zones, I look at my rates afterwards. I've been running for so many years that I know instinctively what pace to run at for a required effect, and they generally fall within the guidelines that Chrisull mentions.
It probably depends on whether the training program that you are following uses MHR or WHR.
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Nov 2017
2:53pm, 28 Nov 2017
32,052 posts
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GlennR
Just to remind people that Parker writes MHR but means WHR.
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Nov 2017
3:17pm, 28 Nov 2017
11,974 posts
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Chrisull
J2R - yes I'm using Karvonen modified and top of zone 1 for me is 122bpm, I can now sit in 124-129bpm very easily (it used to be 128-134 for the same pace, and late last year even 131-137) and for quite a few years I was 144bpm at 8.00 to 8.30 pace, and still able to crank out 1.29.xx halfs and 41.xx 10ks (which according to MAFF, I shouldn't be able to do if I can only do a MAFF at over 8 minute miling). I've altered my HR zones, but I'm no faster.
I've banged my head against the WHR/MHR in this thread before, as stated above 122 vs 136 is a big difference. I emailed Brian Mac one of this countries top coaches about it, and he pretty much came down on the side of WHR. I also don't like the straight HR max one because it's difficult to measure (let's be honest a hilly strava segment would give you a better indicator than run up a hill a few times hard) and is too variable (MHR does not alter massively, but it does fluctuate in training mesocycles) and you rely only on that one variable, whereas RHR and age are easy to suss and provide a greater spectrum of data, and wearing a HRM the rest of the time, you soon see roughly what your maximum is.
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Nov 2017
3:55pm, 28 Nov 2017
33,808 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
Zone 1 for me is 60-69% recovery/Cadbury caramel easy
zone 2 70-74% easy runs/general
Zone 3 75-80% steady
Zone 4 81-85% MP/TEMPO
Zone 5 86-92% 5-10k pace
Above silly pace
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Nov 2017
4:05pm, 28 Nov 2017
18,894 posts
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Doc Moye
i was using WHR....now that ive worked it out.
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Nov 2017
4:26pm, 28 Nov 2017
6,322 posts
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paul the builder
Jesus this is a frustrating read at times.
They are different scales.
So don't use (don't expect to be able to use) the same percentage number to describe any given effort level on 2 different scales.
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Nov 2017
4:56pm, 28 Nov 2017
873 posts
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J2R
PTB, that's all very well as long as people make it clear what scale they're using or talking about. Most of the time people say they're exercising at, e.g, 60-70% of maximum heart rate without making it clear whether they mean absolute heart rate or working heart rate.
Chrisull, keep working at it, it does continue to drop. I find myself trotting along quite happily at 110bpm while running with others, which would have been unheard of 3 years ago.
In terms of working heart rate, I do most of my running below 70%, occasionally up to 75%, and some in the 85-95% area, but very little between 75% and 85% (except when 'passing through' doing intervals - that is, by the end of a 1km rep, I'll be over 85% WHR but after a 2 minute recovery I've dropped down again, usually to 55-60% or so, and it takes a good part of the interval for my HR to climb back up into the high zones).
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