Heart rate

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Chrisull Nov 2017 5:20pm, 28 Nov 2017 11,975 posts	0 Chrisull Yes they are different scales, but given the one letter acronym difference between they are and will always being confused/conflated. Especially on here. Ok new question... Cadence to Heart rate - what is the expected correlation? Obviously, the faster the cadence the higher the heart rate... that is not what I'm asking. What is the relationship to stride length to cadence to heart rate. So two premises: The longer the stride length - the higher the heart rate. The higher the cadence - the higher the heart rate. Right? So where do they intersect? At the ideal cadence of 180? Or something different for each individual (most likely)? I ask this, because I explored in the sub 1.30 thread (See here: https://www.fetcheveryone.com/forum__37225__477__the_sub_130_half_thread) , I observed that reducing stride length WHILE increasing cadence, reduced my HR by a small but definitely significant number. This I'm speculating is to do with running efficiency I'm guessing? So if there are target HR zones... would it be too massive a leap to postulate there might also (for the individual) be target cadences as well? Feel free to shoot this one full of holes.
Chrisull Nov 2017 5:21pm, 28 Nov 2017 11,976 posts	0 Chrisull Link broken because of extra ). Try again here: fetcheveryone.com/forum__37225__477__the_sub_130_half_thread
Dvorak Nov 2017 5:48pm, 28 Nov 2017 14,811 posts	0 Dvorak I think, actually, an ideal general cadence of 180 is about as near a "one size fits all" as you will get in running. Variation, such as it is, will relate more to running action ie sprinting may see cadence rise to 200+; jogging along, dropping to 160ish. But these numbers hold pretty true for everyone over all speeds. (There may be outliers at pace extremes.) (This is observational, maybe someone with actual stats will come along and prove it balderdash :-). One possible exception might be that some shorter East African distance runners might have a general higher cadence.)
J2R Nov 2017 6:26pm, 28 Nov 2017 874 posts	0 J2R Dvorak, your possible exception is definitely confirmed by this video of Zersenay Tadese setting the half marathon world record in Lisbon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5tcgpHIaw0. I think it's something over 200 towards the end, maybe even 210. But yes, 180 seems to be the 'standard', although inevitably it will vary according to leg length. Chrisull, very interesting observation about HR with stride length. You were definitely maintaining the same speed? I'll have to explore that. Anything for an increase in efficiency, however minuscule (although I do already have a reasonably high cadence, around 180-185 for 5K/10K races, but maybe trying to up it a little for HMs might help).
Doc Moye Nov 2017 8:22pm, 28 Nov 2017 18,901 posts	0 Doc Moye goes off to look up own cadence as never known what’s good or bad
Ultimately invisible Nov 2017 8:34pm, 28 Nov 2017 905 posts	0 Ultimately invisible My understanding is that the 180 figure is related to the 'resonant' (not the right word, but close enough) frequency of tendons i.e. maximum energy return from the stored energy in your tissues. Feel free to shoot it down, I'll dig out a reference
puzzler Nov 2017 8:39pm, 28 Nov 2017 692 posts	0 puzzler I’ve found that focusing on cadence is the best way of improving running economy. My half marathon pb was set using that performance enhancing device, the portable metronome.
Ultimately invisible Nov 2017 8:58pm, 28 Nov 2017 906 posts	0 Ultimately invisible Can't find the article I was remmebering, but here's another from Joe Uhan regarding cadence that makes for interesting (for me at least) reading. irunfar.com
Chrisull Nov 2017 11:08am, 29 Nov 2017 11,979 posts	0 Chrisull J2R - I was slightly faster, the higher cadence seems to make me naturally a fraction faster even with a shorter stride length. It feels easier to maintain - but digestively it feels more uncomfortable, (so if I've had a drink it feels unpleasant) and breathing wise it seems to have upset a natural rhythm too. I'm still not up to 180 yet.
J2R Nov 2017 11:57am, 29 Nov 2017 875 posts	0 J2R The most useful metric to have while running would be oxygen usage. If you're using less for a given pace, ergo you're being more efficient. I suppose heart rate is effectively a proxy for that, though - your heart is responding to demand for oxygen.

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Everything you need to know about training with a heart rate monitor. Remember the motto "I can maintain a fast pace over the race distance because I am an Endurance God". Mind the trap door....

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A quote:

"The area between the top of the aerobic threshold and anaerobic threshold is somewhat of a no mans land of fitness. It is a mix of aerobic and anaerobic states. For the amount of effort the athlete puts forth, not a whole lot of fitness is produced. It does not train the aerobic or anaerobic energy system to a high degree. This area does have its place in training; it is just not in base season. Unfortunately this area is where I find a lot of athletes spending the majority of their seasons, which retards aerobic development. The athletes heart rate shoots up to this zone with little power or speed being produced when it gets there." Matt Russ, US International Coach

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