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Aug 2017
7:23pm, 9 Aug 2017
391 posts
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Brunski
Obviously I meant I'm constrained by available time (not restrained, that sounds like I'm into bondage).
Julii, always good to hear other people's details and experiences.
I'd happily hear other people's accounts of their HR during marathons, not necessarily to copy an approach, just to look for any patterns.
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Aug 2017
7:40pm, 9 Aug 2017
1,020 posts
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Dillthedog57
Brunski, I fel as though my ability is closer to a 4hr marathoner rather than a 3hr, so I would say compared to you I am definitely slow.
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Aug 2017
7:44pm, 9 Aug 2017
1,021 posts
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Dillthedog57
I am always tempted to try a Hadd training cycle, but do you do the 10 miles sub lt on a relatively flat route? Mine always have a hill in them, which would really cock up the hr, or pace somewhere in the middle. I need to dig out the Hadd stuff and have a read again for the winter..
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Aug 2017
7:51pm, 9 Aug 2017
392 posts
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Brunski
I've read Hadd a couple of times and yes it'd definitely be best on a flat route (I'm struggling too for those in Sheffield).
ptb are you saying the pace you can hold for 10 miles (sub LT without any rise in HR or drop in pace) alligns pretty much to your goal MP? If so would you then expect rises in miles 11-20, and then steeper rises during the last 6 miles.
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Aug 2017
9:19pm, 9 Aug 2017
1,387 posts
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Teknik
Brunski have a look at page 505 on the Hadd thread. With consistent high mileage and attention to HR, it is possible to eliminate HR drift even over a marathon.
Interesting that the runner in question was running a similar pace in his subLts (10m twice a week) about 4% of max lower during training. He hit 174/197 = 88% as early as mile 4, but then held it for another 22 miles ! (Good reason not to look at HR in a race, just run the pace you've proved in training.)
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Aug 2017
9:23pm, 9 Aug 2017
1,388 posts
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Teknik
I'll let PtB answer you're first question... 
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Aug 2017
9:45pm, 9 Aug 2017
1,389 posts
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Teknik
*your
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Aug 2017
10:27pm, 9 Aug 2017
393 posts
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Brunski
Thanks Teknik, yeah very interesting looking at those stats from DavieC. I read back a few pages and it looks like he had a very solid block of running culminating in a sub 80 half and then 2:48 marathon.
It definitely shows that the Hadd approach works for some, I've tried to adopt bits of it to my training but never really given it a proper go. Maybe before next years VLM?
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Aug 2017
7:19am, 10 Aug 2017
1,029 posts
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Dillthedog57
Reading back through the Hadd paper, he reckons the best hr to run a marathon at is 91/92%, which you can get from the talk about Joe. Oddly turns out to be exactly what I had seen from my own marathon heart rate, so maybe I wasn't too far off.
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Aug 2017
8:37am, 10 Aug 2017
6,179 posts
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paul the builder
"""ptb are you saying the pace you can hold for 10 miles (sub LT without any rise in HR or drop in pace) alligns pretty much to your goal MP?"""
Well, hopefully it does :-). What I mean is, by the time I've started with those sub-LT at (say) 4 months out, with a settled HR target of (say) 145, waited for them to a) get rock-solid (no drift) and b) stop significant pace improvements week on week, and then done 2 more cycles/iterations of that at 150 and 155 - then what I'm getting in those 155bpm 10m runs in the last few weeks is going to be pretty much my marathon pace capability.
Race day HR is not going to be, or behave, the same as HR in training. So don't try to extrapolate too much (because of being tapered versus heavy-legged, and then also nerves/adrenaline etc. of the special race-day situation).
It might well be higher earlier due to adrenaline etc. - but you'll probably find that you're more comfortable for longer, due to being fresh-legged.
I don't recommend being a slave to HR on race day personally, because of this.
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