EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here

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Fellrunning Oct 2016 8:01am, 23 Oct 2016 1,757 posts	0 Fellrunning I see that the Canadian model is going well. Halted by Belgium no less.... Ah well - bodes well for our trade deals then doesn't it??
DeeGee Oct 2016 9:24am, 23 Oct 2016 17,643 posts	0 DeeGee Halted by half of Belgium. Now, Brexit would now come on here and claim that having removed ourselves from the over-bureaucratic troika that is the Brussels dictatorship means that we'll be able to negotiate trade deals with countries like Canada in record-quick time because we don't have to listen to the concerns of specific ethnic groups in a country where we fought wars against Merkel, so the likes of Canada will give us what they want because, like an ugly bird in a northern nightclub, they're grateful for the attention. But because they're currently warning up their molotov cocktails to throw at the 14 teenagers who travelled here from France recently, I'll put their point forward instead. Of course, this line of reasoning doesn't extend to the favourable trade deal that Berlin will definitely force the EU to give us because Germany sells us some overpriced cars.
Winded Oct 2016 9:51am, 23 Oct 2016 4,901 posts	0 Winded It is the nature of these deals that there are last minute hurdles. I wouldn't read anything int it either way. As for it indicating anything about the UK being able/not able to make deals with the EU or with anyone else it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know.
Duchess Oct 2016 10:15am, 23 Oct 2016 7,197 posts	0 Duchess DeeGee, we've had a good few Brexoters post here with coherent and reasoned arguments for their choice. I don't think its appropriate to tar them all as wanting to murder children.
deslauriers Oct 2016 11:38am, 23 Oct 2016 160 posts	0 deslauriers I'm sure Brexiteers have their reasons. However, it can't be denied that they seem to be more bothered by a couple of kids coming here than the several billion lost from GDP, probably forever. Clearly not all Brexiteers are xenophobic, racist or just plain thick. But all the thick, racist xenophobes voted Brexit. Another reason why a binary referendum was a very bad idea.
Winded Oct 2016 12:50pm, 23 Oct 2016 4,902 posts	0 Winded Degee - reading again I find myself agreeing with Duchess. Well, nearly. I don't think anyone want to murder children and I don't think you think that either. Also the overpriced cars - some of them are quite reasonably priced if you haggle. (though that may alter with currency fluctuations)
DeeGee Oct 2016 9:43pm, 23 Oct 2016 17,644 posts	0 DeeGee Apologies.
Binks Oct 2016 3:37pm, 24 Oct 2016 7,347 posts	0 Binks Is anyone else worried about how readily people will reduce a group of people into a stereotype based on one box they ticked in a box once? Like voting for Brexit totally defines you as a person and now lumps you into a homogenous (and very large) bunch of people who are generally seen as racist/isolationist/thick etc. I see lots of comments of "the Brexiters this " and "they" think that, as if it's just one brain speaking for them all. I voted out for reasons that align to my principles and I don't think these principles are evil. I have had many a debate with my mostly IN friends about this. Most of the time we are talking in terms of arguments for and against, rather than name calling and stereotyping. However I've seen some of my highly educated and intelligent friends head off down the human reduction route. "The Brexiters" this "The Brexiters" that. Does putting a tick in a box make you the same person as all who do similar? My understanding of history is that lumping humans into a group in this way can lead to the dehumanisation of that group. And when a group is dehumanised bad things happen.
macca 53 Oct 2016 4:13pm, 24 Oct 2016 24,176 posts	0 macca 53 well put Binks. Unfortunately there's an awful lot of lumping going on at the minute in politics around the world and it just feels like EVERYONE'S ALWAYS SHOUTING AT EACH OTHER:) These are just a few of them ( with my [light-hearted] descriptors added): Brexiters Lots of people in your street and pub Corbynistas The labour members who think the leader should be supported by his MPs Immigrants People who weren't born in our green and pleasant land Foreigners People who might have been born here but aren't really British and probably aren't the right colour FatCats Someone who earns loads more than you Scroungers Someone who has no visible means of support but seems to have a lot of consumer goods Bremoaners The rest of the people in your street Of course it's possible to be a member of several different groups simultaneously - I personally know a Fatcat Corbynista Bremoaning foreigner Politics has largely been conducted via a series of soundbites for the best part of 20 years now - nut with the advent of social media you have to out-soundbite your opponent every time he/she posts anything so there's no time for the candidates to think out a reasoned response he/she just has to shout something and that something is as often as not just a personal insult. It's all very sad
Jambomo Oct 2016 4:19pm, 24 Oct 2016 5,990 posts	0 Jambomo I think its a tricky one. I feel a bit sorry for some who voted for Brexit as no, I don't think it makes everyone who voted for it is racist/isolationist/thick. I also think that there is a lot of pretty horrible stuff being said, done and encouraged by the government and various figures in the name of Brexit which is not what a lot of Brexiteers were looking for or aiming for when they voted. The problem from my side is that, like with any parties general election manifesto, whilst you may not agree with everything a party is proposing, you are effectively backing the whole range of proposals when you are voting for them. You can't choose the bits you like and bits you don't - when you vote, you are putting the whole package into a position of being adopted. Whilst I think there were lots of reasons people voted for Brexit (and I'm sure some were good ones) the campaign that was fought by leave was on the basis of immigration, demonising the EU and its component countries/citizens and little else besides, it was (for want of a better word) their manifesto. It may not have been what was in your mind when you voted, but its what you put your cross against and that is what we are now getting. Those who voted for it are collectively responsible for having delivered it, regardless of what your own motivations were. Dehumanization of any group is wrong and I agree isn't useful and bad things do tend to happen.