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Jun 2022
10:43am, 14 Jun 2022
42,642 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I don't disagree with your figures JR. As jda says, just a question of whether it is "worth it".
I would also agree that I would like to see honesty about figures like loss of trade or increased cost of trade with rUK. Not swept under carpet.
Ditto huge costs for:
funding of pensions
setting up a currency (assuming rUK wouldn't let us continue to use the Pound)
setting up other rUK institutions etc.
There will be a huge bill. And we need to be honest about that. And while there may be some trading opportunities, we're not really doing it for a net trade benefit, so let's not pretend we are (I'm pro-indy, btw, hence the "we").
It's going to be a tough 18 months of campaigning.  G
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Jun 2022
10:57am, 14 Jun 2022
2,281 posts
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IanS
Sadly I think the chances of an open and honest debate (from either side) on all the costs and benefits is virtually zero....
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Jun 2022
11:03am, 14 Jun 2022
12,723 posts
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jda
rUK can't stop us using the pound (lots of countries use the US $), but control of our own currency is obviously beneficial in some respects. I'd expect adopting the € to be a core policy, though maybe that discussion still has to be had.
I'd also see an incremental plan as being sensible. The brexit nonsense was forced into a cliff-edge partly due to prior treaties that hadn't been thought through, and bloody-mindedness of certain politicians. It wouldn't be necessary, though maybe I'm expecting too much sanity. An independent scotland could mostly adopt existing UK practice until it was ready to diverge, not diverge for divergence's sake. There already has been a lot of divergence of course since devolution, and there have been separate legal and educational systems for ever....
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Jun 2022
11:10am, 14 Jun 2022
42,646 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
It's hard for politicians, because of "soundbite media". If you say, "Yes, it might cost us £20 billion to create our own institutions and we'd be paying it off for 50 years to come, but..." everything after the but may be cut off! And you're left with a headline that says "Independence campaign admits to billions of pounds of debt left as burden for generations to come"
But I hope they will at least aspire to some depth of debate and honesty in presentation. One can but hope Ian (how's the ankle?!) G
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Jun 2022
11:28am, 14 Jun 2022
2,282 posts
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IanS
[Still a bit ropey :-)G - I'm getting jealous of all these folks planning for WHW and GG when I can barely manage a parkrun... :-)]
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Jun 2022
12:10pm, 14 Jun 2022
42,647 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
[Hope you get it sorted Ian. I've got dodgy right calf/Achilles, but don't tell David A, as I'm supposed to be doing Lairig Mor section with him to the WHW finish! I'm sure I'll be able to hobble with him, as he'll already have 81 miles in his legs! G ]
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Jun 2022
11:47pm, 14 Jun 2022
8,902 posts
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57.5 Degrees of Pain
A nice bit of Indyref argy bargy gets going and some people ruin it with talk of running
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Jun 2022
11:51pm, 14 Jun 2022
8,903 posts
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57.5 Degrees of Pain
I'm sure Nicola's timing has everything to do with the weakness of the incumbent of No 10. Sadly more people will vote against Boris than for a well thought out and costed Indy plan, such is the weakness of the referendum concept.
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Jun 2022
7:30am, 15 Jun 2022
42,652 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
That's the funny thing about democracy 57.5DoP - you can be a professor of politics or an economics expert and study the data and the pledges and vote accordingly.
Or you can be a pleb who doesn't like a leader's hairdo, or copies their mate, or votes the way their family/religion/tribe tells them to.
The both count exactly the same.
Democracy is a flawed system, it just happens to be the best, flawed system! G
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Jun 2022
7:37am, 15 Jun 2022
7,713 posts
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Dave W
Might be a good sign that Sturgeon has come out and said that if Scotland does get Independence, and rejoins the EU, there will have to be some border checks between England and Scotland.
No detail from what I've seen yet, but at least she's admitting that fact, and not lying about it.
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