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Coronavirus discussion thread

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MH Nov 2020 3:08pm, 2 Nov 2020 769 posts	Quote Pin MH What do you define as vulnerable? Could be a big list..... and how do you then support them or look after those that need additional care.
Spideog Nov 2020 3:14pm, 2 Nov 2020 828 posts	Quote Pin Spideog Not sure what I'd suggest instead, not sure that there is any purpose in doing anything else if it's not a full lockdown and full testing and tracing of the entire population. Throw money at someone competent for running the test and trace and who has zero links to the party. Possibly enforce a proper lockdown on some town that is showing rising cases, test everyone, supply stacks of food to them all, give them three weeks with massive support to all stay at home. Prove the case for eliminating it in that town and then get others on board to do the same country wide... but that is incredibly unlikely to happen as they missed the chance for that in April. A full lockdown can work, but that isn't what is being proposed nationally, and isn't what is happening in other countries around Europe either. At the moment all that is being suggested is doing things that are not shown to have any effect purely for the purpose of trying to appear to do something. An alternative would be to accept that it can't be got rid of for now and figure out better ways to live with it and protect those who need protecting better. Don't know basically, but neither does the government.
EvilPixie Nov 2020 3:15pm, 2 Nov 2020 19,874 posts	Quote Pin EvilPixie WS agree - lockdown part 3 in Feb/march governments around the world have all tried and mainly failed different tactics and ultimately it is the people who have the control over this and saying your exhausted or fatigued of it all or it's confusing etc is a load of BS (sorry) You try telling the NHS staff the carers etc who put their lives on the line every day and who have seen terrible things ... you tell them that you are fed up of it all
Cheg Nov 2020 3:17pm, 2 Nov 2020 1,984 posts	Quote Pin Cheg I would love to see the official list MH. I am not privy to it. But if you look at the death rates by age I would definitely start there. Age Group Male Female Total 85 years and over 10505 12330 22835 75 to 84 years 10472 7158 17630 65 to 74 years 5217 2848 8065 45 to 64 years 3404 1784 5188 15 to 44 years 367 234 601 1 to 14 years 2 2 4 Under 1 year 2 0 2 Ugly as sin, sorry. ons.gov.uk The take home is that nearly 75% of deaths have occurred in those aged 75 and over.
sallykate Nov 2020 3:20pm, 2 Nov 2020 7,085 posts	Quote Pin sallykate Death is not the only effect though. "Long Covid" is a debilitating condition; a friend of mine is a 3:39 marathoner and Ironman triathlete who had Covid in March. She's not been able to run a step since then.
larkim Nov 2020 3:27pm, 2 Nov 2020 12,485 posts	Quote Pin larkim Once upon a time I bought into the "sheild the vulnerable / everyone else get on with business as usual" approach, but having worked for a while since in a workplace with anxious people, people who do get a nasty, but survivable dose, people who are cavalier about their own health etc I don't think its a sustainable approach. Yes, it would reduce the deaths of over 75s etc, but at the risk of harming or killing quite a few others - and the virus is so virulent it would be around every workplace in no time at all. Having said that I don't disagree that the half-hearted lockdown we're heading into will do much other than cap and knock back a little the current rates. I've managed to avoid an infection, despite working full time in work since mid August in a Tier 3 area with lots and lots of fairly care-free individuals around and about in the workplace. I've done what I can to keep myself safe, and respected others to make sure that if I am infected then the only people I'm likely to pass it on to are my household; no elderly relatives, no mates down the pub, etc etc. I've also seen others in the workplace contract the virus because they are idiots with no sense of social responsibility. The only way we wipe this out is either medical intervention (a vaccine), natural immunity / virus mutation (unlikely) or keeping all of us away from each other as much as possible (i.e an economically costly lockdown). Anything else is just a mild damping down.
halfpint Nov 2020 3:28pm, 2 Nov 2020 33,024 posts	Quote Pin halfpint I don't think it's fair to say that SG are going to lockdown 'for the furlough money'. I understand the thinking. They have to weigh up infection control against economic impact. If they knew that the furlough money would be available when needed by Scotland then it's an easier decision because they can use current measures to try and control the spread safe in the knowledge they can lock down further down the line without huge economic consequences. I suspect the announcement today is aimed at getting the UK government to stop being arrogant arseholes and actually think about the best interests of all of the nations (rather than their own self interest). You could call it politcal game playing or a FM trying to fight for the best interests of their people (depending on your political leanings). It's probably a bit of both. [sorry I should probably retire to the politics thread - or just retire]
Markymarkmark Nov 2020 3:28pm, 2 Nov 2020 13,146 posts	Quote Pin Markymarkmark I think spideog has it with "Throw money at someone competent for running the test and trace and who has zero links to the party. " I'd add proper tracking into that too, and when affected individuals are identified, make Isolation for them until 2 negative tests completed, mandatory. Provide support (financial, food, etc.) as required to make it work. I suspect it'd be cheaper in the long run. I notice the "local" tracing groups are having/seem to be having a lot more success than the national one. Maybe a bit more willing compliance if it's not coming from "The Government".
EvilPixie Nov 2020 3:30pm, 2 Nov 2020 19,875 posts	Quote Pin EvilPixie MMM I think one of the issues with T&T is compliance and accurate information
Markymarkmark Nov 2020 3:41pm, 2 Nov 2020 13,148 posts	Quote Pin Markymarkmark EP, I'm willing to bet Tesco Mobile, Morrisons, heck, even Fetch, have enough "rich metadata" information on me and mine to do a reasonable job of tracing and tracking, if anyone pointed the finger at me as a likely infection target. And they're only the UK non-government organisations. My Government Gateway and HMRC "footprint" tells central government who I am, where I live, how much I earn, what car I drive (and therefore with APNR, where I go when I drive it), what my wife's matching "footprint" is, what my email and phone numbers are and if they drilled the data properly they'd even be able to trace my family members based on previous child support/tax credits etc.. I'm pretty sure they could also cross reference that with "local" government records and see where I've nagged the council in the past few years, and build a reasonable picture of my political sympathies and religious views from letters to the Council and the press! I know "they" are not supposed to use our data this way. Do I believe that they couldn't?