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Sep 2021
9:27am, 20 Sep 2021
23,451 posts
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Dvorak
If a woman doubts your ability to feel pain,  G, invite her to kick you hard in the nuts. I'm sure she would be convinced after that.
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Sep 2021
9:29am, 20 Sep 2021
27,995 posts
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EvilPixie
self fulfilling prophecy isn't in
kid has terrible experience in exam or water or whatever
that thing is always terrible before the even try something and therefore becomes terrible
hence they say long distance and ultra events are more mind than body
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Sep 2021
10:27am, 20 Sep 2021
2,438 posts
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Canute
In the case of visual perception, what we perceive is an invention of our own mind. However, we would not survive in the world if we did not continually update our internally generated perceptions by adjusting them according to the discrepancy between what we predict and the messages that our eyes send to our brains.
Similar principles apply to perception of sound and to the perception of pain. What we perceive is generated within our brains but our expectations are continually adjusted according to the messages that our sense organs send to our brains and the consequence any mismatch. The adjustment is not completely automatic. A multiplicity of factors modulate our evaluation of the evidence, either transiently (eg pain tends to be ignored when their other more pressing dangers) or in an enduring manner when our brain learns that the pain signals do not matter. On the whole our brains tend to ignore repetitive things unless they have substantial consequences.
In the case of movements, we (i.e. our brains) generate an internal plan specifying the messages that must be sent to the muscles to achieve the action. We update that internal plan continuously during the execution of the action according to the degree to which our goal is being achieved. This is readily illustrated by the adjustment you make if you are surprised to find that something you start to lift turns out to be far lighter than you expect. You initially jerk the object upwards and then adjust the strength of muscle contraction according to the feedback.
In the case of decisions in more complex situations, the decision making process is governed by prior experience. For example, do I (i.e. the executive system in my brain) continue to drive my body onwards during a marathon when multiple signals from various parts of my body such as levels of glucose supply for the brain, core temperature, signals indicating of microscopic muscle damage in heart and limbs etc indicate that I am getting into a danger zone? Almost certainly our evolutionary past has taught us to make conservative decisions unless a pursuing predator, perhaps a sabre toothed tiger, dominates the decision making process. However, we cannot easily over-ride our in-built evaluation of risks. Generally our brains are not that stupid. We need to learn how to listen to our bodies in a more subtle manner than our cushioned lifestyle prepares us for.
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Sep 2021
10:28am, 20 Sep 2021
79,522 posts
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swittle
Very interesting discussion. Sharkie makes a telling point about the 'vocabulary' around coaching, training, competing and racing. Accepting the discomfort accompanying a particular form of effort as a milestone on the way to improved performance helps to focus the athlete's mind - and body - on coming to tolerate that discomfort, particularly if the level of discomfort becomes more manageable with repeated practice. Of course, the risk here is to 'coast', rather than challenge, by increasing or altering the effort.
Fleecy's 53166 post puts forward a similar route to improvement, and Sharkie's achievement of 'isolation' from external distraction leading up to HJ suggest that there is a synergy between mind and body that, once attained, allows the athlete to enter a purer, higher 'state', where improvement happens.
Canute, AL, HappyG and Dvorak provide useful insights into the fabled 'high' but couched in different terms, e.g. Canute's forensic approach to the links between stride and breath; Dvorak's 'prey' reaction on the sound of pursuing footsteps; and the transient nature of the 'high', e.g. found while competing but not while training.
And then, as Pix writes, there's the ongoing battle with one's will: how strong or otherwise will it be, given the demands to be made on it?
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Sep 2021
10:45am, 20 Sep 2021
2,439 posts
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Canute
Swittle, the issue of will brings in an added dimension. Not only are decisions based on prior experience but also on our ability to imagine and assign value to expected future events.
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Sep 2021
10:54am, 20 Sep 2021
79,527 posts
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swittle
[Canute, I think we may have been posting at similar times ]
Your description of a type of taxonomy of signals to the brain [A message centre?] supports the need for self preservation: when those signals are accompanied by different layers of discomfort, or even pain, the decision to throw the 'off' switch is often taken out of the athlete's power.
Will, I think, differs from forms of conditioning - but I really need to revisit the psychology behind this.
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Sep 2021
11:46am, 20 Sep 2021
2,440 posts
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Canute
Swittle, yes understanding will is a challenging thing. I was co-investigator of the first human brain imaging study that attempted to delineate the brain mechanisms involved in willed action. That was in the early days of functional brain imaging in the late 1980’s. In that study we succeeded in illustrating the role of communication between frontal cortex and other brain regions in self-directed actions. However, when I look back on that study I realise ruefully how simplistic it was.
My professional interest in the topic is a part of my ‘day job’, though it is more than a day job. It is motivated by my commitment to contribute to understanding the mechanisms of serious mental illness. The challenge has proven to be a bit more complex than we envisaged 35 years ago. Throughout that time I have always felt we are only about 5 years away from a clinically meaningful breakthrough. The past thirty years has taught me to be sanguine.
As someone who has enjoyed running for more than seven decades, I have also have an amateur interest in how the mechanisms of our minds and brains play out in everyday life. That has greatly enriched my experience of running.
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Sep 2021
2:34pm, 20 Sep 2021
79,537 posts
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swittle
Canute: the albatross of expectation cannot be a comfortable burden for the scientist to bear; however, in arriving at proof and predictability, it is necessary to map a clear route through unpredictability and the unknown.
My interest in mental illness and mental health is a personal one but I can only draw on anecdotal evidence stretching back to 1975. I have become better at recognising possible signs of deterioration by assessing my willingness to do, or not to do certain things. These vary from profligacy in spending money, to neglecting the lower layers of Maslow's 'Hierarchy of Needs'. My will is either too strong - or too weak.
It's many years since I've hit those extremes, and my will to keep benefitting from running, physically, mentally and socially, remains an important factor in maintaining good health.
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Sep 2021
3:02pm, 20 Sep 2021
43,439 posts
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.B.
Fascinating stuff Canute
I can tell when I “have the right head on” (as I term it) for weight loss or serious training. Recently I have been able to lose weight and get back to running. It’s interesting to me that I have (apparently) wanted to do both for many months, and evidently could have done so months ago, but turning desire into action only happened when I was in the right headspace.
If it helps anyone, things that have helped are:
Accountability to my PT - booked sessions & I let him know my weight loss and running improvements
Accountability to myself - fancy Garmin scales linked to App so I can see graphs of my body composition - hugely motivational when weight going down, but also I could see it go up after holidays! The most recent holiday I didn’t put in any weight, so the evidence of previous trips away really helped me see the impact of what I was eating.
Returning to park run and seeing improvements as my weight drops and I train in the week
Returning to running club, seeing friends again and committing to runs in the week
Identifying the why - for me I want to lose weight for general health, vanity and to get my parkrun time back down. I do think about these things quite a lot - a form of visualisation I guess.
Achievement - I am getting a real buzz out of achieving the little goals along the way eg next half stone / under 30 min 5k.
This should have been a blog! Sorry
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Sep 2021
3:07pm, 20 Sep 2021
79,543 posts
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swittle
Worth sharing more widely, .B.
Knowing 'why' you're doing 'what' you're doing, and recognising 'where' you are along the way affirm your actions and motivate too.
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