When to strength train?

8 watchers

tipsku May 2014 12:24pm, 25 May 2014 222 posts	0 tipsku I also train for marathons (next one in October) and I try to do 2-3 short strength sessions, only about 15-20 min each. I found that this is more efficient for me than trying to do 45 min exercise classes which often leave me too exhausted for the running. These short ones fit in nicely with the running, I can even do them after the slow runs. I do any 2 or 3 of the following for each session: 1) the myrtl routine (here's a video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLrKr54yA0) 2) a set of lunges and squats, sometimes with hand weights, depending on how I feel 3) the power progression plank (here's a picture of the 5 stances: leanitup.com ) 4) a set of sit ups, press ups and back strengthening exercises like 'dry swimming' 5) parts of the Core H routine (video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvwuTw6rjTY) I can't do all the V-sits yet, still need to work on them. So I do only about 30-60 min of strength training a week at maximum, but I've seen the benefits of it. I've been injury free since 2011 despite increasing training volume and intensity and setting marathon PBs every year. I found that it helps me to maintain a good running form throughout the marathon. If you look at mile 20+ you often find that people start slouching because they don't have the strength to keep upright. Then the arms start swinging across the body, you shuffle along, and your running economy decreases significantly.
Kieren May 2014 8:19pm, 26 May 2014 3,735 posts	0 Kieren I found squatting with the barbell and heavy weight (struggling to complete 10 reps) improved my posture when running. I think that made me more efficient in later stages of a run & a bit better controlling descents but I couldn't prove or disprove that. I don't think it made me faster & when I started, I used to hate barbell weights. It was only after about a month that I began to like it. Once you get over 80% bodyweight (give or take) on the barbell squat, your core gets a great workout as all the muscles of the trunk have to work to stabalise the weight. That said, you can treat this as a hard session and I think it would be detrimental to incorporate them when running hard (long / fast sessions). I'll usually do some 'low / high plank obliques' to warm up more core before squatting and make sure nothing is going to pop. Then I stretch out with bodyweight squats and start light on the bar, increasing weight until I get to my max for reps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BBfR6_kRHQ
Velociraptor May 2014 8:44pm, 26 May 2014 29,785 posts	0 Velociraptor How's your running, Kieren?
Kieren May 2014 9:47pm, 26 May 2014 3,737 posts	0 Kieren Pretty much non-existant at the moment, also with not much gym in the last 6 months. Not really practicing what I preach. Got lazy when I as between homes. training again now and have some a 10K series coming up (first Wednesday of June / July / August). As it's the same course I hope I will see some progress and get motivated. I don't have much experience with 10K so it's fresh for me. Picked up training about 2 weeks ago. I quite enjoyed not training and dont regret it but do wish I was a better at balancing things. It's either off or on. Peronius Brevis still gives me annoyances. Probably a combination of a lot of things but I'm finding some of the drills on my blog and athletestreatingathletes.com help. My threshold is zero but oddly lower body strength has remained on my 6 month lazy-fest. I can more or less still squat, deadlift and good-morning the same weights I was doing before. Upper body strength has gone though. I'd really love to be doing plyometric stuff again but that seems an express route to ankle failure for me so perhaps a focus on flexility & massage is needed. I have the stick, tennis ball to come. I do enjoy the weight training now provided I can get on the equipment and get in and out fast. I'm pretty much done in less than 35 minutes. So yeah, 10K is the new black. Hopefully get a time I wont be embarrassed about before the year is out
Kieren May 2014 9:54pm, 26 May 2014 3,738 posts	0 Kieren Oh and back on topic, I should add that if you do decide to incorporate strength training in your off season, please try and get someone knowledable to watch you lift and teach you good form. The first time I deadlifted, I went light because everyone in the gym was doing the same and advised caution. I didn't feel like I'd had a workout but had intense back pain for about 4 days. Following that, I got a book that was strongly recommended: Starting Strength - Mark Rippetoe amazon.co.uk I got it with the aim of learning to deadlift but it starts with almost 60 pages on how to squat. Even without the book, you can gain a lot from hunting down Rippetoe's videos on youtube. There might be other authors that offer equal benefit but it's very important to learn how to lift safely.
lammo May 2014 9:55pm, 26 May 2014 5,845 posts	0 lammo You doing Yateley, Kieran?
Kieren May 2014 10:09pm, 26 May 2014 3,739 posts	0 Kieren Yah - good guess. I'll be somewhere near the back for the first one but hopefully make an improvement by August. Are you doing it? Do you know the course?
Gizzard Puke May 2014 10:33pm, 26 May 2014 178 posts	0 Gizzard Puke I tend to train most of my runners with a few basic exercises to develope their maximal strength these are squats, step ups, stiff leg deadlifts or single stiff leg deadlifts depending on requirements, military press and a rowing/pulling exercise. Once there is sufficient strength and ability under the bar, to teach them to transfer the maximal strength to power I move them on to the Olympic lifts. I dont usually take them below the hang poistion though. They have to earn the right to back squat, they have to be able to squat body weight, then goblet squat then front squat, all to adequate depth with good enough technique before progressing on to the next stage.
SPR May 2014 10:52pm, 26 May 2014 19,333 posts	0 SPR I've read a bit of Rippetoe stuff, pretty good for technical stuff on lifts. Currently reading the sample of Starting Strength on Kindle. This is the site I first used when I started weight training: exrx.net
Canute May 2014 1:17am, 28 May 2014 989 posts	0 Canute I think Rippetoe is very sound despite the fact that his presentation style in videos is a bit macho. I think his book ‘Starting Strength’ is excellent. My ‘key’ exercise is the squat with the bar fairly low on my back. As noted in a link that Kieren posted on the Efficient Running thread recently, when the bar is held fairly low the torso inclines forwards , and it is difficult to get the hips much below the knees. However provided you get the hips a bit below the knees, there is a good balance of the forces acting on the knee at the bottom of the descent. I sqauts are great for both eccetric and concentric loading of hams and gluteus maximus. I also do deadlift, allowing my knees to flex a moderate amount to minimise risk of a dangerous curve of the back. During base-building (but not during my current marathon training due to limited time) I do hang cleans, as I think they are good for developing power – but I have not done them regularly enough to develop a really good technique.