May 2021
1:51pm, 28 May 2021
2,015 posts
|
SailorSteve
Hey WW, hope you’re well.
Here’s my subjective tuppence on Endorphins fwiw: I bought a pair of Pro’s for races and was so impressed on the first test run that I immediately wanted to buy a pair of Speed’s to use for training. I ended up buying another pair of Pro’s off eBay (someone had bought the wrong size).
I’ve run all of my marathons in Kinvara’s or A8’s as I like the contrast between “heavy” training shoes and “light” racers. The Pro’s simply feel light and fast, just like the A8’s, but they feel cushioned by comparison too. Just lean forward 5°-10° and you’re off. The geometry of the shoe seems to make mid/forefoot striking the natural position. I’ve mucked around with a bit of heel striking to see what they’ll be like as I tire and that feels comfy too.
In terms of pace comparisons im afraid I still use my trusty sundial or kitchen clock. On that dodgy basis, my “supereasy/run forever” pace of 8:45-9:30 in ‘normal’ trainers is more like 7:45-8:15 in the Pro’s. As has been said elsewhere, it feels much more natural to run faster in them rather than slowly.
Minimal signs of wear in my “training” pair after about 50 miles.
Make of that what you will!
Can’t compare with N*k* as I wouldn’t touch them with someone else’s bargepole.
|
May 2021
2:13pm, 28 May 2021
34,348 posts
|
SPR
They are banned. MK3000 sent an email out before last week's races about their procedures which seemed fair. Copied verbatim below:
Shoe Rules
Earlier this year UK Athletics announced that the World Athletics rules concerning footwear are being implemented across all competitions which are held under UKA rules. Lead of the Run Briatin and Power of 10 websites Tim Grose has released a video to explain the rules.
The key thing for our event is that your shoe's maximum sole height can't exceed 25mm; officials will be monitoring and although checks will be made by the Referee and other appointed technical officials primary responsibility for conformity lies with the athlete.
The latest list of approved competition shoes can be found here. The majority of spikes can be worn as well as road shoes with low sole height.
The list also clearly states which shoes are not allowed for track races above 800m. Examples of shoes which aren't allowed include the Adidas Adizero Adios Pro, New Balance FuelCell RC Elite, Nike Vaporfly Next%, Nike Air Zoom Alphafly Next % and Saucony Endorphin Pro.
Although the formal rules of competition are clear, the Referee and Meeting Organiser will use discretion especially where it is clear that competitors are new to track events and/or the shoes in question (eg well worn road running shoes) are unlikely to create an unfair advantage and where it may not be in the best interest of the individual or in the spirit of the ‘sport’ to enforce the rule.
|
May 2021
2:22pm, 28 May 2021
272 posts
|
fuzzyduck79
Thanks SPR
Think the issue at the moment is not all athletes/race organisers are aware that this rule has been applied to all UKA races now
|
May 2021
2:37pm, 28 May 2021
14,580 posts
|
larkim
I like that final paragraph SPR. As a stereotype, I can see some blazered officials being quite black and white about it, but that's likely a very unfair stereotype and certainly the ones I know would quite happily turn a blind eye to enforcement in those circumstances, whether they were instructed to do so or not!
|
May 2021
2:47pm, 28 May 2021
34,349 posts
|
SPR
Yes, I think races need to publicise it. There may be some that are trying it on though.
I agree about the last paragraph. Someone like me should obviously be DQd if I turn up in banned shoes but there's people who wouldn't know or that are essentially outside the intention of the rules as they are wearing mileage shoes or some other shoe that obviously has no advantage.
|
May 2021
2:48pm, 28 May 2021
274 posts
|
fuzzyduck79
Know where you are coming from larkim, but I think the last paragraph will create some issues. Certainly in the example I've seen none of that would apply (athlete not new to track racing, and wearing Next% created an advantage) but people who want to wear them will start arguing with the officials if that bit is in the guidance.
The effect of the slower runners being allowed to use them (and have their times officially listed) will trickle down to moderate runners saying it must be ok for them too, followed by pretty decent runners, then sub elite all wanting to be allowed to wear them. There's no line, but people who are following the rules will feel it's a p*ss take that nobody else is.
At which point the rule might as well never have been rolled out.
|
May 2021
2:51pm, 28 May 2021
275 posts
|
fuzzyduck79
Do agree that plenty of mileage shoes would be over 25mm but offer no special advantage though
|
May 2021
3:14pm, 28 May 2021
2,016 posts
|
SailorSteve
I thought some shoes had been ruled offside for road races too, but pretty much any shoe I’ve heard of is on the list and gets the green light.
|
May 2021
3:30pm, 28 May 2021
34,351 posts
|
SPR
I agree there could be some issues and trickle down would definitely happen so I don't think pace is the line. Someone like me is easy but what about someone that does one 5000 a year? Publicising well in advance seems to be the main answer.
SS - 40mm limit for the road. Don't think anything was out above that limit. The road rule essentially was whatever is out already is legal.
|
May 2021
3:34pm, 28 May 2021
38 posts
|
EatSleepRunRePete
Hey WW, I'm not sure I can offer too much more than what others have said about the Endorphin Pros. I bought mine a few months ago now, but have only worn them I think 3 or 4 times ... each time I kept hitting PRs in them, so very carefully placed them back in the box for when I next want to run quickly. I don't race (not yet). The only running shoe comparison I have is based on a pair of Hoka Challenger (trails) and several pairs of Brooks Glycerins. I would echo what others have stated though, and particularly there does seem to be a sweet spot of cadence and form that brings out the best in them (and your pace). It's difficult to actually run slow in them. I remember seeing a review that said this and I thought "Tosh! Watch me ... ", and oops there goes another PR ... I also now also understand what people mean about the slight feeling of instability in them also ... it's like running on rails, is the only way I can describe it. You do feel sometimes like you could come off and do yourself an injury! Ha!
On the whole, though, I love them, but I will be saving them for when I want to run quickly. They do however make me feel like I'd like to get the Speeds for day-to-day stuff
|