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Feb 2020
8:53pm, 15 Feb 2020
908 posts
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SKR
Canute, i'd say the effects on amateur runners has a bit more to do with the effects of social media than commercialisation.
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Feb 2020
8:55pm, 15 Feb 2020
2,011 posts
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Canute
SKR
Yes, social media have spread the message, but Nike have written the script.
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Feb 2020
9:22pm, 15 Feb 2020
2,012 posts
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Canute
Furthermore, I would be intrigued to know how much emphasis in NIKE board-room discussions is placed on sales of vaporfly or alpha fly to amateur runners. I assume that sales to dedicated runners is only a small component of their business. I suspect that the major goal is to maintain Nike's position as a dominant brand name in the world of sports shoes. However, in striving for commercial dominance they have produced a situation in which commercial interests are exerting a major influence on advances in the sport of running.
This is not necessarily bad. Many of us quite reasonably strive to advance our performances by whatever means is legal. But I am a little sad to think that the advances are skewed by commercial competition. It is now less true that it is the way in which we have trained our own bodies that gives us the edge; it is the shoes we are able to buy.
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Feb 2020
6:41am, 16 Feb 2020
68,606 posts
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Gobi
So I'm a cyclist , buying performance has always been possible .
Maybe this is why I am more comfortable with it all.
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Feb 2020
9:31am, 16 Feb 2020
1,740 posts
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um
Isn't it the case in every sport Canute?
Wood to carbon fibre tennis rackets? Dimples on golf balls? Grass to astro for hockey. Sports physchologists & nutritionists? Scientific training? Altitude training? Slo-mo video analysis?
Sprung synthetic tracks rather than cinders or redgras?
I think it does need the 'sport' to keep a step ahead and impose reasonable rules - yet also allowing reasonable innovations to improve performance, enjoyment and where appropriate. marketability.
Nike's business model does seem to be to get and advertise #1 spot/performance and then use that to pull other sales behind it. It's sales to the public they're after, and seemt o have found a way to attract the 'amateur and higher' sports people, along with the 'fashion' wearers. Their biggest revenue product? Air Jordans.
I'll consider Vaporfly's f ever I get to my absolute best - until then, I suspect I have scope for 20 - 30% improvement if only I trained harder / better / don't pull anything doing it.
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Feb 2020
9:44am, 16 Feb 2020
909 posts
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SKR
ANd of course we can't rule out hard work! Its not all about the shoes, the shoes in my opinion just help you deliver what you've trained for.
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Feb 2020
10:50am, 16 Feb 2020
2,014 posts
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Canute
Yes, advance based on technical assistance has been the case for most sports. The governing bodies of other sports have generally managed to avoid the situation where one company has dominated the competition as is the case with running at present. Swimming had it issues with swim suit fabric a few years ago, and acted decisively and fairly to deal with it. However for me, that is not the main issue.
For many of us, running has been an exceptional sport. It is a sport where training your body and mind is the crucial thing. When runners extend their limits and achieve a PB, it is largely attributable to extending the limits of their bodies and minds. It is a personal achievement. Of course that is not absolutely true but hitherto it has been a major factor in the sense of achievement.
I was interested to note how strongly Kipchoge down-played the role of the shoes in his sub-2 hour marathon. I can understand why he felt that way. It was natural for him to want to take ownership of his performance. He is of course a superb athlete, probably the greatest marathoner ever, on the basis of his ‘un-assisted’ performances. However his technically assisted sub-2 hour marathon was achieved with the help of extraordinary technical assistance and has taken some of the gloss of the achievement of the first person who does it without extraordinary technical assistance.
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Feb 2020
8:51am, 17 Feb 2020
40 posts
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JR
Yet more of my clubmates recording big PBs this weekend - no change in the training they've been doing for years but they have changed their shoes....I am so tempted to get a pairt but I am truly of the belief now that the shoes make the difference so I am getting a bit more anti buying them as time goes on as not a "real" reflection of performance.
that said, perhaps it's easier for me to think this way as I;m well inside the GFA cut off so even if it reduces I should still be OK for a GFA time.
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Feb 2020
9:00am, 17 Feb 2020
15,943 posts
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Bazoaxe
How big are those PBS?
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Feb 2020
9:36am, 17 Feb 2020
10,368 posts
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larkim
2019 was certainly exceptional in terms of UK marathon running depth of performance, if RunBritain's data is reliable (hint - it's not entirely!)
If you ran a sub 3 hr marathon in the V45M category you were 1 of 408 RBR runners. Historically this matches up as:-
2019 - 408
2018 - 270
2017 - 310
2016 - 336
2015 - 326
2014 - 268
2013 - 259
2012 - 233
2011 - 182
2010 - 209
Or alternatively, if all male runners' performances are stacked up, to get in the top 1000 places these are the times posted:-
2019 - 2:44:19
2018 - 2:49:44
2017 - 2:48:18
2016 - 2:48:20
2015 - 2:49:39
2014 - 2:52:08
2013 - 2:53:03
2012 - 2:53:18
2011 - 2:54:31
2010 - 2:54:20
It's not a perfect data set as it only ranks (AFAIK) performances linked to profiles, and I suspect fewer races were uploaded as we go back further in time.
But 2019 does look like a massive outlier in both datasets. As someone seeking GFA, that does look daunting if for whatever reason you're not in the shoes.
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Nike Pegasus
Jul 2024