Sub 3Hr Marathon
1 lurker |
314 watchers
Apr 2024
9:28am, 25 Apr 2024
44,058 posts
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SPR
I don't get the argument against preference TBH. Preferences will guide how we approach things but I don't think anyone said they 100% will do a marathon without fuel come what may.
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Apr 2024
9:35am, 25 Apr 2024
44,059 posts
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SPR
My thought was that it was because it was so little that was the issue but it could be just coincidence. I didn't make the link till Saturday. On the Friday I just thought this doesn't feel right and I don't know why but as I was planning something I don't normally do (two long runs back to back), I aborted the plan.
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Apr 2024
9:41am, 25 Apr 2024
16,951 posts
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jda
There is that funny bit of research apparently showing that running performance improves if you take a mouthful of sugary drink, swill it round and then spit it out without swallowing. So it's not necessarily all about the calories themselves.
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Apr 2024
9:43am, 25 Apr 2024
16,952 posts
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jda
I also don't doubt that different people have different reactions to food and water during exercise. However for a random person starting out, I think it's good advice that they should try to take on moderate amounts of both in a marathon.
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Apr 2024
10:00am, 25 Apr 2024
81 posts
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crash
Again, this is just personal to me. I notice more of a different with pre-run fuelling. If have a good portion of pasta on a Saturday meal I feel a lot better on the Sunday long run than if I don't. I think gels and sports drinks do help me, but at least some of that is mental. I probably need to find a better way of carrying fuel, I find gels bouncing about to be more damaging and distracting on my early miles when I should be focusing on getting the early pace right and if you've ever dropped a gel early on in a race that can play havoc with the mental strategy of a marathon.
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Apr 2024
12:26pm, 25 Apr 2024
23,917 posts
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larkim
I get the personal preference thing as a choice; but for someone who is generally performance / outcome driven in racing then it seems to me that that holding that preference seems to be out of kilter with the intent to perform well given that the science backs up the general rule of carb fuelling during endurance exercise being the right thing to support good performance. But we are all individuals, too of course and that mouth swilling thing is pretty reliably evidenced as working for a short term hit. But I come back to the "what have you got to lose" by taking on carbs during a long race? If there's a small chance (let's say 10%) that you are someone who can run for 3 hours at marathon intensity without taking on fuel or much water vs 90% likelihood that some carb consumption will have an overall net benefit on the outcome, I can't see why anyone would opt *for a first and potentially only* marathon for the 10% chance. (Obvs my 10% / 90% are arbitrary figures plucked out of thin air, but it feels like fewer than 1 in 10 elites hold to that sort of zero carb strategy) |
Apr 2024
12:57pm, 25 Apr 2024
7,124 posts
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Little Miss Happy
crash - I find that my breakfast choice pre long run makes a lot of difference.
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Apr 2024
1:47pm, 25 Apr 2024
44,060 posts
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SPR
larkim I don't think it's a small chance TBH. People ran marathons before gels were common place. For an individual it really about finding out whether there's a huge adverse effect and a lot of that can likely be done in training. You won't understand the preference because it's not your preference but you make other decisions that are preferences that may not be optimal. Obviously there's research that it helps and is likely needed for best performance over 2 hours but elites have it easier than most by being able to fuel by drinks and those being bespoke drinks. Essentially my preference will mean I go for a route that leads to as little fuelling as possible (or simply not doing one as I wouldn't have done the HM in October if fuelling was a consideration) while yours will lead to you taking as much as possible which has its own risks as you mentioned with your partner getting cramps (risk she was fine with presumably). |
Apr 2024
1:54pm, 25 Apr 2024
3,438 posts
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Big_G
Can’t believe I’m getting drawn into this as it seems one of those were “Larkim’s gonna Larkim”. But all the evidence in the world goes down the loo (literally) if a runner who can’t stomach gels ends up spending 15mins in a portaloo out on the course. Or ends up throwing all their gels back up at mile 22. Comparing an elite with an amateur isn’t helpful, either. There are many reasons elites may choose a particular gel, and sponsorship may well be one of them. Fact is plenty of people can run marathons very successfully without gels, and I don’t recall anyone suggesting this discussion was about someone doing their one and only marathon.
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Apr 2024
5:27pm, 25 Apr 2024
23,921 posts
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larkim
LOL, sorry for being me! The 15 minutes in a portaloo scenario occurs only when someone hasn't trained / experimented with gels earlier so I don't think that's a useful example. And I do 100% agree about elites being different to the rest of us. It's something I've highlighted on other occasions; there is a big difference between running a marathon at maximal marathon intensity for 2-2.5 hours vs 3.5-4 hours, and even more for the runners taking 5-6 hours. Gels in particular are designed for fast consumption and absorption, so I'd quite happily suggest for someone heading for a sub 4 that they try real food first of all as that might do the job nicely. My better half experimented and just found gels / bars easier to consume on the run and she tolerated them well. Obviously if she was doing one again she wouldn't have any late in the run because now she has experienced cramping at 25 miles. I don't buy into the "Ron Hill didn't take gels" kind of argument, because part of the reason why the world record is faster than it was in his day is that fuelling has been developed to get the best out of elites. And we'll never know whether Steve Jones could have run a better British record on fuel vs zero fuel. I suppose what I'm struggling to understand (and I do listen, and learn!) is what personal preference might lead someone to rejecting fuelling for a first go (or a first and last) marathon? A well managed approach to including fuelling as part of the training would reduce to a tiny amount the "risk" associated with GI distress etc during a race, and there are zero long term health risks to temporarily fuelling on carbs for high intensity endurance exercise. I've probably taken gels on about 10 runs in my life. All my marathons, a few MP training runs and a couple of ultras. I do wonder about the many, many runners who will take them for a 10k, or take them on their easy hour runs etc. That does feel like overkill. |
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