Nov 2024
12:30pm, 7 Nov 2024
5,706 posts
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J2R
There has inevitably been lots of "how could this possibly happen?" hand-wringing on the interwebs since the appalling US election result. For me, though, it's quite simple. Simple to explain, that is, although far from simple, in fact nightmarishly difficult, to address. The Right, here and in the US, lies, openly and brazenly, and has been doing so since at least 2016 when they saw they could get away with it. They create a whole alternate reality not based on truth. The Left just does not do this. In an electorate with so many 'low information' voters as in the US, this works wonders for the Right, as their position on so many things, the things they say, are nice and simple - "immigrants are causing your problems". They don't have to deal with complexity. Add to this that they now have Twitter/X amplifying every one of these lies, and the mainstream media continuing to do the tragically misguided approach of 'sane-washing', presenting a palatable version of their positions instead of pointing out the lies or treating the likes of Trump as insane, and it is clear that the Right have every advantage. Odds are heavily stacked against the Left (term used broadly here, as by European standards the Democrats could hardly be regarded as Left in a lot of their ideas). What to do about this? God knows. The mainstream media have to be bold and stop treating positions based on complete falsehoods as being valid, be bold enough (and well informed enough) to say 'No, that is completely wrong because of xxx' rather than treating it as interesting. It's not going to happen, though. |
Nov 2024
12:55pm, 7 Nov 2024
28,451 posts
|
TROSaracen
Both sides were lying in the US, unfortunately. Our lies were not of the same type/purpose but lies are lies and it allows equivalence. The biggest one, and one they got caught out with was lying about and covering up Biden’s cognitive decline. |
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Nov 2024
1:16pm, 7 Nov 2024
28,452 posts
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TROSaracen
FWIW I listened to Kamala’s concession speech and I thought it was her best. Yes lots of platitudes but appropriate in the circumstances with a few zingers: ‘I concede this election but I do not concede the fight for the principles on which this campaign was built’ IIRC John McCain was another who saved his best for the concession! |
Nov 2024
1:22pm, 7 Nov 2024
27,634 posts
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Bazoaxe
Chrisull wrote: Sorry - apparently it will be 53-47, some commentators reporting 52-48 incorrectly. But still a small victory, Rosen will win, she leads by more votes than there are votes to be counted it sounds like. If they havent been counted, how do they know 
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Nov 2024
1:23pm, 7 Nov 2024
46,655 posts
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SPR
Corbyn was leader and had policies, they were rejected but clearly he tried to do something. The Transport minister comments were unwise. Ultimately many people's disaffection is that both sides don't really want to change things much and will tinker round the edges. Tories and Republicans seem to be capitalising on that by going for right wing populism. |
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Nov 2024
1:24pm, 7 Nov 2024
5,707 posts
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J2R
Bazoaxe wrote: If they havent been counted, how do they know You know how many votes there are in a box, you just don't know which way those votes have gone. |
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Nov 2024
1:26pm, 7 Nov 2024
46,656 posts
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SPR
I thought Kamala's concession speech was fine. I'm not really sure what she could do really. She was hardly going to be a change candidate and if she was, she'd have needed a longer build up to plan something coherent.
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Nov 2024
1:37pm, 7 Nov 2024
46,658 posts
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SPR
Re the election, I think Twitter probably played a big role. Lots of people got their news from there and Musk shifted it quite a bit. I only found out yesterday that he'd created a verified account called America that essentially spews right wing propaganda but looks official. One of of the propaganda items that could easily be sold to voters was that it would be the last election for them to do something as Democrats would grant lots of immigrants citizenship and then they'd never be able to get rid of the Democrats. |
Nov 2024
1:55pm, 7 Nov 2024
18,080 posts
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jda
It's easy to throw about random unfalsifiable claims about "what the dems did wrong". She was too quiet, if she'd made more noise she'd have been too strident. She was simultaneously too left wing and too right wing. Precious little evidence that any of it really mattered in the final analysis. People will make up all sorts of excuses as to why they voted for such a disgusting example of a man, but they voted for him all the same. May they all be grabbed by their pussies. |
Nov 2024
1:59pm, 7 Nov 2024
26,037 posts
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larkim
If 32% of Brits say they would vote Trump, we shouldn't be surprised when 51% of Americans actually do it. |
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