Nov 2024
11:05am, 7 Nov 2024
22,229 posts
|
Cerrertonia
Chrisull wrote: Someone needs to remind them that Johnson in 2016 called Trump 'dangerous' and 'unfit' and that Trumps' own vice-president previously said that Trump was America's version of Hitler.
Lastly, Tories kicking David Lammy for previous comments about Trump. |
Nov 2024
11:05am, 7 Nov 2024
6,899 posts
|
paulcook
Chrisull wrote: Sorry - apparently it will be 53-47, some commentators reporting 52-48 incorrectly. But still a small victory, Rosen will win, she leads by more votes than there are votes to be counted it sounds like. A fascist president with no guard rails. What could possibly go wrong?! |
Nov 2024
11:07am, 7 Nov 2024
22,384 posts
|
Chrisull
fields - I think you're dead right there, it's a problem for any left leaning parties. Someone said get some left wing populists. I just saw George Galloway pop up on my timeline being unashamedly racist about Harris. And I see the way Russell Brand has departed into Christian, QAnon-ery conspiracy la-la land (I won't call it right wing, because it no longer conforms to any orthodox politic outlook, it's simply it's own unique brand of batshit). I mean, who might fill such a void? Chris Packham has the potential, but he's not really a politician or anyway wanting to do that. But is that void the left want to fill, if following the Galloway route is what is on offer.... |
|
Nov 2024
11:09am, 7 Nov 2024
22,385 posts
|
Chrisull
Part of the problem is when the left do it, it comes across as paternalism, telling people what to do, how to think, no matter how unintentional.
|
|
Nov 2024
11:16am, 7 Nov 2024
6,900 posts
|
paulcook
I think left-wing voters look for more faults in their left-wing politicians so you're never going to get a unifying figure. Just my 2p, or 2c.
|
Nov 2024
11:45am, 7 Nov 2024
490 posts
|
DaveG
I think the issue on the left is there's a big difference between performative left and genuine left. People like Corbyn would be performative left. What's important to them isn't societal change, but being seen as being left-wing. So moving the political consensus to the left, so that their views remain the same but they are in line with the general public, is seen as a bad thing. They wish to make their point they are more left that others, even if that gets in the way of doing good. The Transport Minister recently criticising P&O to look left, when they are in a position to influence employment conditions in companies tendering for public contracts, is a good example of this. As is people who won't vote Labour as they aren't left enough and don't care if that means the Tories win (or, who don't vote Harris for a minor issue with one policy which lets Trump in). Genuine left would be people like Starmer, who are happy to be seen as centralist if that move the political consensus towards their position. Starmer doing things which are unpopular with left-wing people but for the greater good is an example of what being left-wing should be about - using a platform for good, rather than self-promotion. You don't really get this on the right. They genuinely want to see right-wing policies which they see as being in their interest, rather than wanting to define themselves by their rightness. This is why contentious issue will impact left-wing parties much more than right-wing parties. Many people will think they dislike Trump, but dislike the Democrats more. Many people will really hate Trump and the Republicans, but fail to vote Democrat because of one small issue and ignore the bigger picture altogether. Aside from the Corbyn years, I've generally found people who think being a Socialist is part of their identity are the people least likely to vote Labour. |
Nov 2024
11:47am, 7 Nov 2024
9,970 posts
|
simbil
The right converges around freedom and small/no state, the left diverges with many different ideas about how to make a state, so it's easier for a right wing leader to get support and easier for various flavours on the left to instead squabble. Don't think it really matters for America though, they are culturally aligned with freedom and personal success and very few want hand outs or a large state, they want opportunities. |
Nov 2024
11:58am, 7 Nov 2024
26,033 posts
|
larkim
The turnout thing is funny. As others have said, the Dems not complaining about it is now clearly "evidence" that they forged millions of votes last time. And there'll be plenty who will buy that argument, as nonsensical as it is. Presumably the reason it spiked in 2020 was down to postal voting post covid etc. Though still remains a shame that millions of people who positively did "something" to vote for Biden couldn't find a little more energy to do the same for Harris (and ditto the same could be said to be true of the Trump voters). |
Nov 2024
12:09pm, 7 Nov 2024
5,705 posts
|
J2R
Great post, @DaveG! (By 'great' I mean, of course, aligning largely with what I think  ).
|
|
Nov 2024
12:22pm, 7 Nov 2024
26,034 posts
|
larkim
Amesbury charged and summonsed to appear in the Magistrates. theguardian.com |
Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.Related Threads
-
Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
-
EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here
Aug 2018
-
March to Parliament Against Brexit - Sat 2nd July
Jun 2016
-
EU Referendum
Feb 2016
-
Ads on Fetch - anyone else getting Leave and Remain?!
Feb 2017
-
The Environment Thread :-)
Jan 2025
-
Economics
Jan 2025
-
Dear Scottish Fetchies
Jan 2023
-
Any economists out there - question
Oct 2022
-
Power and exploitation - please check my sanity
Oct 2018