Oct 2023
3:02pm, 19 Oct 2023
10,166 posts
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Fields
What’s the point of having principles eh?
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Oct 2023
4:21pm, 19 Oct 2023
3,464 posts
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paulcook
FPTP.
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Oct 2023
4:47pm, 19 Oct 2023
4,778 posts
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J2R
If someone on the Left decides to withhold their vote from Starmer's Labour Party because of his support of Israel in this crisis, because of FPTP they are effectively giving their vote to the Conservatives. How supportive are the Conservatives of the Palestinian cause? It's shit, I know, and I wish it were not like this and we all had the chance to vote for who we really wanted without having to consider unwanted side-effects, but sadly that is not currently the case. |
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Oct 2023
4:51pm, 19 Oct 2023
3,465 posts
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paulcook
That’s kind of my point. So many of those people who Labour are supposedly losing because of Israel / Hamas / Palestine. Who exactly are they going to vote for instead?
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Oct 2023
4:53pm, 19 Oct 2023
23,885 posts
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richmac
Swerving back to something else bbc.co.uk Another rat abandons - with a deal that says they'll testify. |
Oct 2023
4:56pm, 19 Oct 2023
22,406 posts
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larkim
What’s the point of having principles eh? It's a really interesting / difficult point. If someone, say, was implacably opposed to nuclear weapons, can they ever justify voting Labour when the declared policy is to maintain them? Or do we just line that up as one policy aspect across a broad range of policies and decide that voting for least worst is still better than not voting at all. (Obvs, the long game should be to be an activist for change in the policies that you want to see, but at the time of a specific election no matter what the voting system you still have to make choices which will include compromises). It's all well and good saying "I can't in good conscience vote Labour because of their support for Netanyahu's response to the Hamas attacks", but if you can't find a place for your vote for an outfit that does match your outlook then you lose your voice. |
Oct 2023
4:58pm, 19 Oct 2023
43,055 posts
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SPR
They might not vote and that is a choice. If someone feels strongly about a cause that's their prerogative. Up to the party that wants their vote to change their mind if they think that correct way to go.
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Oct 2023
5:08pm, 19 Oct 2023
22,407 posts
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larkim
But even under PR, not voting can lead to unintended consequences. I accept it is worse under FPTP, but the choice at the next GE is a FPTP option only.
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Oct 2023
5:13pm, 19 Oct 2023
48,183 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
No, but under PR, if e.g. 1M people across UK said we don't want to vote for Labour, rather than being 1,000 off in this seat and 5,000 in that seat leading to 50 seats going to the Conservatives, you would get a 5% representation of e.g. the Sympathy with the People of Palestine party and they would get 1 or 2 seats in parliament and would possibly form a coalition with a one or more party coalition and their voice would be heard. Anyhoo, you all know that. |
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Oct 2023
5:15pm, 19 Oct 2023
43,056 posts
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SPR
Up to the party that wants power and their vote to do something about it. Change positions or change minds.
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