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Feb 2020
5:26pm, 19 Feb 2020
23,056 posts
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Johnny Blaze
If I am honest I am losing interest in the government's rolling series of small-minded, race to the bottom fuckwit decisions caused by Brexit. They wanted this and if they now find the Law of Unintended Consequences is going to make their lives a misery for the next 5 years, fuck em, they were warned and it's all on them.
What I am more bothered about is the impact on people of their mean-spirited, bean-counting, insular right wing bullshit and the opportunity cost of all the time spent dealing with issues that are a result of their wretched Brexit project. While they are handling a series of complex decisions about trade and all the other impacts of Brexit they aren't fixing the many problems the country has. The "benefits" of Brexit are still lost in the mist and remain unarticulated beyond "freedom to do our own deals", but we have seen the costs for the last 3 years and we will have another 5 years of this at least.
I don't doubt that this is only the start, and if the economic chickens do eventually come home to roost (I'd argue they already are and this will accelerate now) there will be multiple missteps, bad decisions, belt-tightenings, lies and broken promises for years to come. As I said, fuck em.
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Feb 2020
5:44pm, 19 Feb 2020
6,406 posts
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jda
I think they genuinely do want no deal, after all they are consistently arguing that this is the only route to "taking back control" in the sense of setting all rules locally. It's a load of bollocks basically but it makes for good slogans and the electorate voted for it in droves so...
Shrug.
I don't want it, I have opposed it at every turn and by every means possible, but I'm going to be alright either way so I'm not going to allow myself to lose any more sleep over it. I have considered moving abroad but since this will remain possible indefinitely into the future, I don't need to jump into it right now. I hate what the country is turning into but I like how my life is working on a day-to-day basis so it's probably better to just disengage rather than care too much.
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Feb 2020
5:49pm, 19 Feb 2020
23,057 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I dunno how much of what they say is just posturing ahead of the actual dealmaking. If it is, it doesn't say much about any intent to behave like adults. If Johnson has any sense he will want a deal of some sort, because a crash out could sink his government, but whether he and his minions are competent enough to craft a half-decent one in the time available - who knows.
It might end up as a deal which covers easy-win basics, but realistically I, and I suspect many others - including members of the govt - don't really have a handle on the complexities of the dealmaking process, so who the hell knows.
The sensible thing to do would be to have some kind of alignment principles but the silly arses have turned their backs on that. After all, we are out of the EU now, so why not adopt a principle of damage limitation, but nope, let's go full right wing dickhead and isolate ourselves from half of our export market. Very sensible.
If it was me I would always work on the 80/20 principle when under time pressure - try and get 80% of the wins in 20% of the time and leave the difficult, time-consuming 20% for later. But if there are fundamental doctrinaire objectives which take precedence it could be a right old bugger's muddle, with a mad scramble to salvage "something" at the 11th hour.
My best guess is he will get a "thin deal" which will cause sectoral problems all over the shop that will be subject to lots of further manoeuvrings and machinations for years to come. Who knows though, they may genuinely just be play-acting and might use July-Dec as the preparation period for a no deal exit in December. Whatever, you can bet they are lying through their teeth about something at the moment - it's their MO now.
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Feb 2020
5:56pm, 19 Feb 2020
23,058 posts
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Johnny Blaze
It's quite depressing how lies and bullshit are being so easily accepted from Johnson and his crew now. We wouldn't accept lies from doctors or dentists or solicitors or pilots, so why is it "okay" to allow politicians to lie with impunity "because that's what they do"?
If we elect liars we will be lied to. That matters. The truth matters.
"If we had told you the truth you would never have voted for us" is not an acceptable proposition.
Lay out the facts, tell us the truth and let us make informed decisions.
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Feb 2020
6:04pm, 19 Feb 2020
6,408 posts
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jda
It's certainly not sensible to take everything they say at face value. But agreeing a deal usually takes a lot of negotiation and trust and that seems in short supply with the UK openly boasting that it will renege on the existing agreement. I don't know what options there might be for some sort of trade agreement where the EU allows ongoing free trade with the option to switch it off in short order if the UK undermines the level playing field. That would open up the EU to lots of pressure with the UK playing games with threats and brinksmanship. OTOH - "we have taken back control but chosen not to exploit it yet" is also a logically defensible solution from the UK side.
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Feb 2020
6:05pm, 19 Feb 2020
2,593 posts
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J2R
The biggest political problem of our time, which has very rapidly come upon us. Politicians are brazenly, openly lying to us, without fear of repercussion, and their target audience is happy to be lied to as it helps their side 'win'.
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Feb 2020
6:11pm, 19 Feb 2020
2,911 posts
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ThorntonRunner
It's like the (cba to look up his name) special advisor who had to resign because of his expressed views. In the past the government would have been so sorry and apologised and promised to vet people more carefully in the future. Johnson and Cummings basically shrugged their shoulders and said whatever.
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Feb 2020
6:12pm, 19 Feb 2020
2,912 posts
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ThorntonRunner
That was I reply to JBs comment re acceptance of their lies and bullshit
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Feb 2020
6:13pm, 19 Feb 2020
2,913 posts
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ThorntonRunner
But also fits with j2r
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Feb 2020
7:46pm, 19 Feb 2020
3,060 posts
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Bob!
J2R it won't be 'no deal', it will be an 'Australian type deal'
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024