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Jan 2020
1:19pm, 6 Jan 2020
10,420 posts
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Markymarkmark
mr d - very true. But the employer still can't pay more than they can claim back from the customer as profit without going bust, so in our current economy there have to be other incentives to come and work somewhere than "only" the money. And the quantifiable stuff tents to take money....
There's a lot to be said for the idea of a Universal Income where the basics are taken care of for all, and then we let/encourage people to work for the extras. It's very counter-intuitive and counter cultural due to the all-pervasive drift we've taken to the right as as a society, though.
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Jan 2020
1:19pm, 6 Jan 2020
10,421 posts
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Markymarkmark
*tends to take money. Not tents!
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Jan 2020
1:21pm, 6 Jan 2020
25,210 posts
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Wriggling Snake
I don't see a conservative immigration policy automatically reducing cheaper labout, I think it will have all sorts of caveats in it, i.e for farming, leisure work. I also think the policy may make zero hours contract work increasing, amongst the professions too. I.e you have a points based system to allow professions in but you also stipulate a minimum wage, which will force a particular profession's wage structure down to that minimum. Remember they are conservatives, on the die of business and profit making, not on the side of the individual (even though they say they are).
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Jan 2020
1:29pm, 6 Jan 2020
175 posts
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Stander
Agreed there are staff shortages in some sectors Mr D - almost none of which are minimum pay rate jobs.
Coincidence?
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Jan 2020
1:47pm, 6 Jan 2020
15,717 posts
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Bazoaxe
I did read the annual news article that points out the average FTSE 100 CEO has already earned the average wage of a UK employee which kind of brings home the point on earnings. OK these guys do have a lot more accountability on their shoulders, but they are not worth what they are paid.
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Jan 2020
1:51pm, 6 Jan 2020
9,890 posts
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larkim
Agree about certain aspects of the productivity piece, jda, but that doesn't apply to all situations. A 1:1 carer paid min wage in a LA-funded care home cannot be more productive - they are on an 8 hour shift providing 1:1 care for an individual. They cannot achieve that in less time otherwise 1:1 contact will not be provided. They cannot provide for 1.1 individuals. Hence all the employer sees is an increase in the cost of labour, without (usually) any recognition of that inflationary pressure from the body funding the care. An extreme example, perhaps, but in the service sector, where wages are a higher proportion of the total cost of operation, it will not be possible to recover all of the wage uplift through productivity improvements.
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Jan 2020
2:06pm, 6 Jan 2020
10,423 posts
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Markymarkmark
And of course, the Care Sector is one where there are a lot of minimum wage employees, and also a labour shortage, resulting in staff being "required" to put in additional hours at only their basic hourly rate.
From my admittedly unscientific and anecdotal awareness from speaking to friends who are care staff, the care sector seems to rely on a combination of staff goodwill and institutionalised pressure on staff to do more (almost to the point of bullying in some cases) in order to meet it's commitments.
Something similar seems to happen in pre-school childcare too. 
And as larkim says, you can't increase productivity over and above the minimum in those places where the whole purpose is reliant on personal care and interaction.
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Jan 2020
2:31pm, 6 Jan 2020
6,072 posts
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jda
Conservative immigration policy over decades has been to allow as much as possible while blaming it on the EU.
Cheaper than training and educating people and it's a sure-fire vote winner too.
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Jan 2020
5:07pm, 6 Jan 2020
3,445 posts
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mr d
My wife's school have trouble keeping hold of TAs, it only pays just above minimum wage.
Rather than training a lot of IT gets offshore, then comes back within 5 years.
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Jan 2020
9:50am, 8 Jan 2020
25,239 posts
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Wriggling Snake
I see Long-Bailey has given Corbyn '10 out of 10' for his tenure, and has warned against 'centrist policies', he rallying cry may as well be, return to your constituencies and prepare for opposition, for years and years and years.
Oh dear.
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