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Nov 2019
9:57pm, 22 Nov 2019
22,918 posts
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Johnny Blaze
The Tories may well win the election but I think ultimately Brexit will find them out. It is on them, good or bad, and if it goes badly - personally I think it will - they won't have anywhere to hide. Labour should take the next 5 years to reflect and move back towards social democracy and away from hardcore socialism. If they do they will royally trounce this bunch of muppets in 2024.
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Nov 2019
9:59pm, 22 Nov 2019
22,919 posts
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Johnny Blaze
However, I wouldn't say that is bound to happen. If their vote collapses and they decline to learn the lessons they could be out for 20 years. Like last time.
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Nov 2019
11:09pm, 22 Nov 2019
15,517 posts
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Chrisull
The coalition imposing un-needed and harsh austerity, and a northern audience who suffered it disproportionately giving both representatives of it a huge mauling (just like when they kicked Clegg out). Who knew that might happen? Haha.
Funnily enough what was forgotten in 2008, at the time Brown was credited with helping avert the absolute disaster that reckless free market capitalism brought down on us, and then from a narrow election loss and a witless joke from Liam Byrne (and it was a joke) about there being no money left, was recast as Labour caused the worldwide financial crisis, and we had to suffer the next 7 years of pointless austerity to balance a deficit that actually didn't FUCKING NEED BALANCING.
Look I have huge issues with Brown's laissez moi faire touch to the banks, the continuing deregulation, the cosying up with the worst toads of the world from Murdoch through to Dacre (fat lot of good it did them), but he didn't cause Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to go tits up along with the stampede that brought Lehman Brothers crashing down and almost caused Goldman Sachs to implode as well. The funny thing is it's all gonna happen again in the near distant future, probably with the Tories in control. Who you gonna blame then? Ah but it wasn't the Lib Dems fault, because as per 90% of history, they were nowhere near power.
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Nov 2019
11:11pm, 22 Nov 2019
15,518 posts
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Chrisull
Oh and JB - yes total agreement. What is wrong with Scandinavian style social democracy?
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Nov 2019
11:22pm, 22 Nov 2019
22,920 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I've actually read the Labour manifesto and there is a lot of good stuff in there. But there's "too much" in there and too many things which make me think that JC still doesn't get The law of Unintended Consequences. At all.
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Nov 2019
7:38am, 23 Nov 2019
1,633 posts
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JRitchie
Regarding the financial crisis Brown’s relaxed attitude did go as far as vetoing EU proposed banking regulations that may have reduced the negative impact. Ultimately agree that Tories just as bad but at the end of the day Labour like the rest of the world didn’t want to see the bubble. They just saw the taxes rolling in. And sadly not much has changed.
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Nov 2019
8:01am, 23 Nov 2019
1,634 posts
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JRitchie
The best bit of the debate last night was the audience. Very well informed!
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Nov 2019
8:56am, 23 Nov 2019
22,921 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I think Labour did have a part but they can't be blamed for the US financial market players taking leave of their senses.
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Nov 2019
11:05am, 23 Nov 2019
2,383 posts
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Fellrunning
If a horse decides to bolt blaming the jockey who happened to be sitting on it at the time is convenient......
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Nov 2019
1:41pm, 23 Nov 2019
5,828 posts
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jda
“Labour and the Lib Dems have a lot to answer for in this mess.”
I think it’s important to remember that this whole Brexit clusterfuck was a Tory creation and has been a Tory production from start to finish.
I'd like to have seen the LibDems and Labour manage it better, but blaming them for it is a bit like me blaming my cats for not tidying up in the kitchen after I've spent the morning cooking.
(they are just looking a bit puzzled and disappointed, wondering why I've bothered to make a cake which doesn't have any meat or fish in it.)
If you want to look for scapegoats and can't stomach the thought of blaming the Tories then the BBC would make a better target than other parties. How much of their political coverage over Brexit and before that word was invented, the EU more generally, could reasonably be described as fulfilling their mission to "educate and inform"?
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
