Aug 2019
1:32pm, 29 Aug 2019
8,136 posts
|
simbil
I've seen similar ideas mentioned a couple of times Dochart, but am skeptical. Skeptical of that one because the WA can already come back so long as it is different - this does not require proroguing. Skeptical as it will not get the ERG on board without completely re-writing it, and possibly not even then. Skeptical in general though as any changes to the WA would need agreeing at the EU summit on Oct 17th. That would give a little time to vote on the WA in the Commons but no time to pass accompanying legislation necessary to actually withdraw on Oct 31st. So either BoJo is not serious about any WA or he is not serious about leaving on Oct 31st. |
Aug 2019
1:32pm, 29 Aug 2019
5,054 posts
|
jda
Yes that seemed immediately obvious to me. Johnson can bring the WA forward (whether or not it has changed in any material sense) and say take it or leave it.
|
Aug 2019
1:34pm, 29 Aug 2019
2,431 posts
|
FenlandRunner
But what is Brexit? Why is no deal more of a Brexit than Mays deal?
|
Aug 2019
2:08pm, 29 Aug 2019
2,219 posts
|
J2R
FR, quite right. I personally believe that every single one of the 17.4 million Leavers voted for the Norway option, apart from those like Stander who have explicitly said they voted to leave without a deal. This may seem ridiculous or extreme, but it is in fact it's far less ridiculous than those who claim now that 17.4 million people voted to leave without a deal - at least the Norway option was one talked about as a possibility at the time. Of course, nobody actually knows which of the multiplicity of possible Brexits the 17.4 million people actually voted for (if indeed they themselves knew). But there's a way we could find out... |
Aug 2019
2:19pm, 29 Aug 2019
284 posts
|
deslauriers
From the official Leave campaign. Note fourth bullet point. google.com |
|
Aug 2019
2:29pm, 29 Aug 2019
285 posts
|
deslauriers
We can debate all day what Brexit is and why people voted for it- immigration, "sovereignty" ( taken a hammering yesterday), "freedom" ( nope, me neither), economic reasons ("benefits" unspecified, "in the long term" , again unspecified), treatment of Greece, I didn't like Cameron, a Polish girl stood me up etc etc. Ultimately, it now just comes down to WWYLGOI. I've reconciled myself to several forms of Brexit. I just wish Brexiters would be willing to accept responsibility for the negative effects that will result from any Brexit. I think we know most won't. It will always be someone else's fault. There are some positives of Brexit. It has shown that our systems need to change dramatically. Secondly, a no deal Brexit would mean Farage as a public figure becomes entirely superfluous. |
|
Aug 2019
3:18pm, 29 Aug 2019
2,220 posts
|
J2R
I think one of the big problems with the whole Brexit business is that, out of fear of being seen to be biased, a lot of the media (yes, BBC, I'm looking at you) has been far too deferential to ludicrous points of view expressed by Leavers, allowing them to take root and gain a spurious credibility, when they should just have been treated with derision. One that leaps to mind is the constant assertion that Theresa May's deal (or any of the other options which have been talked about) isn't leaving the EU, it's not Brexit. The correct response to this should really be "Of course it is, you utter moron! As a result of it we would no longer be members of the EU. We will have left the EU. How difficult is that to understand?" The referendum question was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" The fact that the media didn't point this kind of thing out with sufficient robustness early on has allowed a whole false alternative reality to develop. |
|
Aug 2019
3:35pm, 29 Aug 2019
5,055 posts
|
jda
Quite. I would have no problem with Stander saying that May's WA was bad, and not the sort of brexit he wanted to see. I agree that it's bad, though maybe not for the same reasons. But calling it "not brexit" is just infantile nonsense. It's shit brexit, but so is every other brexit apart from the unicorn fantasy brexits that don't actually exist.
|
Aug 2019
4:06pm, 29 Aug 2019
2,233 posts
|
TomahawkMike
J2R..just what my son and I were discussing today. IMHO the BBC has backed right off any perceived sensible discourse on brexit very recently. It's been less challenging in the last couple of weeks (I read the BBC too much) Have they been got at? Of course not, but I have switched to the guardian and deleted the BBC app.
|
Aug 2019
4:30pm, 29 Aug 2019
32,252 posts
|
HappyG(rrr)
Laura K yesterday said something that really annoyed me (she often does) but it felt so biased. Something at the end about the inevitability of 31 Oct exit happening, whether the dodgy moves by BJ prevail or not. The language of inevitability is not helpful. A lot of Leavers (in my very limited knowledge) seem to think it should just "get it over with". Not recognising that "get it over with" doesn't happen on the 31 Oct. If we leave on 31 Oct (and even worse with no deal) there are YEARS of it not being over with. If the Leavers (or possibly soft Leavers / don't cares / don't knows?) were told more clearly * Cancel Brexit - it is all over and we can get back to talking about NHS or fox-hunting or whatever you want to * Do Brexit on 31 Oct and you have 2-5 years of: - BJ vs. parliament and/or - general election and/or - more votes on deals and/or - more hard choices on problems thrown up by not being in EU: NI border, customs, immigration... etc. Never mind economic impact etc. I think they might go "What? Really. Sh*t that for a game of soldiers. Cancel! Abort! Stop! We thought they could just "Do Brexit" and it would be off the news." ?  G
|
Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.Related Threads
-
Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
-
EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here
Aug 2018
-
March to Parliament Against Brexit - Sat 2nd July
Jun 2016
-
EU Referendum
Feb 2016
-
Ads on Fetch - anyone else getting Leave and Remain?!
Feb 2017
-
The Environment Thread :-)
Jan 2025
-
Economics
Jan 2025
-
Dear Scottish Fetchies
Jan 2023
-
Any economists out there - question
Oct 2022
-
Power and exploitation - please check my sanity
Oct 2018