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Aug 2014
10:20pm, 17 Aug 2014
30,522 posts
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Velociraptor
Twice as much route to recce, I suppose.
I don't have that excuse because I live here. But I just can't imagine being able to cope with two consecutive sleepless nights.
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Aug 2014
10:23pm, 17 Aug 2014
20,255 posts
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ogee
Never have the time to recce any of my races nowadays, always have the thrill of that surprise hill popping up just when I think it's over...
Sometimes it's nicer not to know whats coming, most of the time it's better to be prepared though.
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Aug 2014
10:45pm, 17 Aug 2014
15,132 posts
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flanker
unless you're looking to save every second, the road book is that good you don't need to recce. I don't think there is much difference in training between the two, but as someone who never has a training plan what would I know 
I don't think the coach road is that bad; as long as you're still in good shape you can power through it reasonably quickly. The road into Dalemain (and worse still the endless drive) is a tad boring, but with a nice rest ahead you can run it quite hard and get it over quite quickly.
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Aug 2014
10:45pm, 17 Aug 2014
16,981 posts
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KinkyS
Other than flanker doing the Hardmoors 110 while I did a road marathon, we did exactly the same training this year for our respective 50 and 100 attempts, so I do believe the actual training can be the same.
My two sensible concerns are firstly, going 2 nights without sleep. I'd be a lot less worried if it started early in the morning. Is it possible to train for sleep deprivation? And secondly, my downhill weakness. Would my legs stand up to all the descents? Training is the obvious solution to this one, but when you live in the Fens steep descents are hard to come by! Any bright ideas? I've heard the suggestion of going backwards on a cross trainer to use the same muscle groups, and then there's the going up and down the stairs in the multistorey car park option Gym work like plyometrics will work the right muscles but in the end is there any substitute for training on the real thing? I know flanker managed it on Fenland training, but he's a natural downhiller to start with.
My third, entirely irrational concern is that the last of my 3 previous UTLD failures was one of the most traumatic experiences of my running career so far. Imagine getting a mere 2 miles into a 105 mile event that you've trained hard for and focused on and realising there was no chance of finishing. I didn't even make the 26 mile/10 hour cutoff at Buttermere that year, and it was pretty devastating Nothing I could've done about it, an old injury flared up on the way up Walna Scar Road and I knew straight away it wasn't on as I pretty much couldn't run at all, but it was a pretty bad experience that took me a long time to get over...
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Aug 2014
10:57pm, 17 Aug 2014
75 posts
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nuttyficket
That last concern is totally rational in my book. I can understand how it can be hard to contemplate an event after such a bad experience last time out; I guess you either accept it was a one off and put it behind you (and try again at the 100), or realise it's something that can happen no matter how well you prepare, and go for what you're more familiar with (the 50). After I DNFed at a 100, I lost all running mojo for nearly a year, so can sympathise.
No idea on sleep (I was fast enough to not need 2 nights out on the trail) or downhills (I live in Yorkshire). Sorry!
If I was you, I'd just go on gut feeling, what do you want to do? The 100 will still be around for years to come
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Aug 2014
11:06pm, 17 Aug 2014
17,749 posts
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JohnnyO
Probably right, but I think the mental thing isn't there for me yet. Plus I did the 50 the first time of one 30 miler and one 40 miler, the first being hilly and the second flat. I did a bit more last time, but probably didn't run as well at the 50.
I might even go so far as to say that as long as you live in a reasonably hilly area, you can do the 50 off marathon training, maybe just doing some back to back LSRs. But you couldn't do the same for the 100.
(Plus Teddy sleeps like an angel, srsly, 12 hours a night from when he was 4 weeks old!! :))
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Aug 2014
11:15pm, 17 Aug 2014
15,133 posts
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flanker
I only did 3 runs over marathon distance in the build up. A 30 on NYD, a 40 during June and the HM110 (which was all about beating the mental barrier in training, but probably cost me time as I donlt think I ever fully recovered from it). I did run more marathons than probably any other 6 month period though.
Next year I want a few more longer events and more time on proper descents as I trashed my quads on the first leg. I'll also be racing less marathons.
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Aug 2014
11:16pm, 17 Aug 2014
190 posts
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missvivvy
Given you're contemplating it then you that think it's possible.
Solutions:
1. Party hard for 2 nights?
2. (More seriously) Squats. With weights. Single leg, lunges, back, (and if your collar bones can take it) front squats. Squats take you through a dynamic range of movement engaging quads, hamstrings and glutes. Go for low weight and high reps, and do not raise your heels onto small weights. Also run up and down that bliddy hill at Wimpole?
3. Shit happens? Not irrational, but only you will know how you'll cope?
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Aug 2014
12:27am, 18 Aug 2014
54 posts
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pedro
I always think that you never know what's around the corner and it's better to fail trying your best at something than regretting you never gave it a go when you had the chance. Okay, worst case scenario you fail, so what? But the better case scenario is that you succeed! I am in the same position as you KS a 50 finish but self doubt about the 100. However, I have decided I'm going to put in for a place next year anyway. I know I will regret not having a go sometime so it may as well be sooner rather than later. As for the sleep deprivation I don't know how you can get around that. Caffeine? For the ascent/descent training I think DT suggested on the Bob Graham thread of training weeks or weekends away to the hills. Hill reps closer to home maybe?
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Aug 2014
7:48am, 18 Aug 2014
16,982 posts
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KinkyS
I like the sound of number 1. Shame I have a job LOL!
I already do number 2. My gym-based strength routine already has conventional squats, single leg squats, split squats, forward and backward lunges, jumping lunges, step ups and deadlifts. I don't think the basic underlying strength is an issue, I think it's the specific downhill technique that needs strengthening. I've been thinking about getting a couple of PT sessions to freshen up my old routines though, if I can find someone at the gym with the relevant background.
I already spend as many weekends away in the hills as money and family commitments will allow - at least once a month and usually more, and as many offroad/hilly races as I can. There really are *no* proper hills anywhere near by. The Wimpole hill is a good idea, but it's only a couple of hundred metres long so I'm going to have to do a *lot* of reps. This year I did treadmill hills for the ups, but I don't really have a problem with ascent, I'm pretty good at going uphill, it's only the descent I struggle with and treadmills don't do that.
The mental block around the past failure is something only I can sort out. Shame I only have 2 weeks LOL!
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