Heart rate
2 lurkers |
300 watchers
Mar 2023
2:45pm, 24 Mar 2023
2,651 posts
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Canute
Chrisull That is one of the few studies that have compared life-long with later onset, but overall I think the evidence does indicate accumulation of damage over time. There is some evidence indicating that previously accumulated damage might be reversed by rest but that evidence is very slender. From the pragmatic point of view, I think adequate recovery from very stressful events is an important aspect of long term well-being. |
Mar 2023
12:07pm, 25 Mar 2023
1,637 posts
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Daz Love
Thanks for the update J2R. All the best and keep us posted on how you are getting on
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Mar 2023
12:08pm, 25 Mar 2023
2,718 posts
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tipsku
Thank you for posting the link to that study. Very interesting findings, I was quite surprised to read that endurance doesn't have a positive effect on atherosclerosis, quite the contrary actually. I read the entire paper and had a couple of questions/suggestions what subsequent studies could look at. First of all, dietary habits were not included at all. I think diet has a huge impact on cardiovascular health and should also be looked at. I was surprised that they mentioned high protein diets as a potential risk factor when talking about long-term endurance athletes. In past decades, cyclists, triathletes and duathletes were all about high carbs - I remember that from the 1990s and 2000s, we had pasta parties even before small events. The importance of protein intake for muscle growth has only been taken on board from the fitness / bodybuilding industry in the last decade or two. So I would be wondering if lifelong athletes see the impacts from the high carb diets they had then. It would be interesting to compare keto and/or high protein vs high carb diets in athletes in longitudinal studies. Secondly, HR zones in training is another factor I would like to see considered. I remember the focus on threshold and tempo training plus higher intensity intervals among the triathletes/duathletes I was training and competing with in the 1990s. They went medium to hard almost every day in training. Would a 80/20 easy/hard approach be better for long-term heart health? That also ties in to what you said, Canute, recovery between hard effort events is very important. We used to compete a lot back then, there were races almost every weekend in the summer months. I don't think that this was good in the long run. I limited my triathlon competitions to 3-4 per season, so 1 per month on average. |
Mar 2023
12:27pm, 25 Mar 2023
19,986 posts
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Chrisull
Ok so what qualifies as excessive and what qualifies as healthy is an obvious question arising? Is it distance? Is it intensity? Is it lack of rest days? Is it number of events? Is it particular kinds of events? Eg marathons?? Also as tipsku mentioned does it actually correlate with things like diet/genetic factors/social status/wealth/marital or partner status ? I'm not saying it isn't true, but exercise is healthy, but at what point does it become unhealthy and is it dependent on the individual involved? |
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Mar 2023
12:28pm, 25 Mar 2023
19,987 posts
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Chrisull
Also ironically one of the related threads here posts to a study which partially counters this: fetcheveryone.com/forum/no-limit-to-the-benefits-of-exercise-in-reducing-the-risk-of-cardiovascular-disease-61786 |
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Mar 2023
4:36pm, 25 Mar 2023
2,652 posts
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Canute
Chrisull, that study based on the UK Biobank is consistent with the vast amount of evidence that exercise in beneficial for health, and increases life-expectancy. However the Biobank study was not a study of athletes. It is difficult to relate the accelerometer measurements averaged over a week in a general population sample, to endurance training. Overall, while there is little doubt exercise in general is beneficial for health, the topic of health benefits and risk of intense or prolonged endurance training remain controversial. As I see it, there is very strong evidence that extensive amounts of endurance training are associated with cardiac rhythm disturbances, and moderately strong evidence for an association with increased atheroma, at least in males – but very little evidence of similar effects in females. However the evidence for effects on longevity remain uncertain. Unfortunately I do not think epidemiological studies will ever provide answers to the questions faced by endurance athletes. Ultimately I think the best evidence to guide the individual athlete will come for increased knowledge about mechanisms of tissue damage. However the human body is complex and answers are not likely to be simple. In the past decade we have learned a huge amount about inflammation. There is abundant evidence indicating that chronic inflammation is associated with multiple adverse health outcomes. There is also a useful body of evidence regarding the physiological processes associated with training and recovery. There is good evidence that heavy training with inadequate recovery is assorted with markers of inflammation. To a large extent, the scientific evidence confirms the pragmatic conclusion drawn by athletes and coaches that balancing training stress with recovery is essential for optimum for performance, minimization of injury risk, and long term well-being. |
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Mar 2023
5:02pm, 25 Mar 2023
19,988 posts
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Chrisull
Also my reading was in those studies that cycling was a healthier/safer option?
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Mar 2023
5:02pm, 25 Mar 2023
19,989 posts
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Chrisull
(in terms of atherosclerosis)
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Mar 2023
5:47pm, 25 Mar 2023
2,723 posts
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tipsku
Third thought on the study: we also need studies on female athletes to determine if there is a similar trend towards more plaque in very active women. I totally agree with your final paragraph, Canute. |
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Mar 2023
9:57pm, 25 Mar 2023
19,990 posts
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Chrisull
I totally agree too with Canute. One caveat, you remove inflammation though (by painkillers, or even by less invasive measures, hot baths, herbs whatever) and that is not an ideal end goal either because you remove some of the training effect too right? I was chatting to a doctor about fevers and about the use of ibuprofen to reduce temperature and he put me right with an of course the immune system works more effectively at higher temperatures, that's why the body raises the temperature... so it isn't necessarily a great treatment. I think the key word in Canute's last para is "chronic" right? Not inflammation per se, but "chronic inflammation" and the older you get the longer the body takes to return to its non-inflamed state. So to return to tipsku's point, my reading is than even an 80/20 regime if followed 7 days a week as you age is not great, that you need complete rest at times and more of it the older you get. |
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