Bob Graham Round

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jda Nov 2021 4:29pm, 30 Nov 2021 11,240 posts	0 jda This sort of route planning is a huge field of mathematics - entire PhD theses have been written on methods that make insignificant progress towards solving special variations on minor sub-problems. Including mine There is of course a lot of money to be saved by routing your Amazon deliveries more efficiently, among other things.
flyingfinn Nov 2021 4:33pm, 30 Nov 2021 2,918 posts	0 flyingfinn Paul you are correct but I think the similar evolutionary step of what can be achieved through detailed planning on the Wainwrights was made when Steve Birkinshaw did his round. There are many many tweaks that can still be made (because as you say it's length and level of complexity increases the number of possible options) and different people will always prefer different options as a result of all sorts of factors but I'm not sure there is another big step quite like the one Steve made still available (IIRC his route was analysed by two academics and shown to be highly efficient). Interestingly two people who made a major contribution to Steve's planning (his Sister and BiL) have now published a book of routes for doing all the Wainwrights https://www.foyles.co.uk/witem/sport-hobbies/peak-bagging-wainwrights-45-routes,karen-parker-dan-parker-9781839811029.
flyingfinn Nov 2021 4:36pm, 30 Nov 2021 2,919 posts	0 flyingfinn https://www.foyles.co.uk/witem/sport-hobbies/peak-bagging-wainwrights-45-routes,karen-parker-dan-parker-9781839811029
♪♫ Synge ♪♫ Nov 2021 4:36pm, 30 Nov 2021 43,415 posts	0 ♪♫ Synge ♪♫ NE - are you supporting Tom's round anywhere?
flyingfinn Nov 2021 4:37pm, 30 Nov 2021 2,920 posts	0 flyingfinn Sorry tried to make that into a proper link and failed....
paulcook Nov 2021 4:44pm, 30 Nov 2021 161 posts	0 paulcook Thank you flyingfinn. A fantastic answer. And I think it was Steve’s 24 hour record I had in mind. There’s a reason I need to finally get round to reading his book.
flyingfinn Nov 2021 4:51pm, 30 Nov 2021 2,921 posts	0 flyingfinn Paul, Steve did it for the Wainwrights in 2014, the person who did it for the 24-hour record was Mark McDermott in 1988 when he took Joss's record. Joss wasn't very complimentary about Mark's use of technology to aid his planning (he used a spreadsheet...) effectively implying that he'd cheated. By 2014 he was rather wiser and complementary in his comments about Steve and the planning he put into his attempt on the Wainwrights.
paulcook Nov 2021 4:54pm, 30 Nov 2021 163 posts	0 paulcook Thank you again. Plug a computer in and I bet there’s a huge impact you could make on the route. Though given satnav is less than perfect on rural roads, the intricacies of the lakes may be another ordeal for it.
flanker Nov 2021 5:37pm, 30 Nov 2021 20,155 posts	0 flanker iirc that's what the research ff mentioned above did. Two students at Manc Uni looked at the route through an optimised travelling salesman algorithm and compared the outcome to Steve's route, and came to the conclusion that his was highly efficient and that there weren't major gains to be made in route choice. Obviously this will somewhat depend on the individuals strengths and weaknesses.
Northern Exile Nov 2021 5:48pm, 30 Nov 2021 8,242 posts	0 Northern Exile Having seen the original spreadsheet that Steve used for his 2014 round, I think it's fair to say that a computer was involved - the man is an Excel god I can also confirm that a computer was used extensively in the planning of both Tom's summer round and his attempt tomorrow. FF is right though, Steve's route forms the basis of all the WW Rounds that have followed, I think a lot of the changes are down to the individual contender and preferred lines. I'll give you an example: Steve followed what appeared to be a particular tortuous line off the top of Wetherlam down to Tilberthwaite via Birk Fell and Hawk Rigg, but I'm sure it was borne of experience and was his preference. Tom decided on a different line that went straight down the gully at Lad Stones and linked up to a line that will be familiar to anyone who's done the L50/L100. Tim - yes, I'm down for a few legs with Tom. I'm currently going to navigate the Duddon to Tilberthwaite section, also the short Loughrigg leg and then the Hartsop leg. If he's still going I may join in on couple of the later legs, but that does depend on how I'm feeling - I've been a bit off form lately.