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Dec 2012
11:52am, 30 Dec 2012
13,327 posts
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DeeGee
Having just returned from an LSR with a more experienced runner, and having discussed the nature of the LSR, I've ended up with more questions than I started with.
There are going to be a lot of folk on here either starting plans for Spring Marathons, or about to, and it strikes me that, for such an important part of marathon success, there are so many conflicting ideas.
What's more, for everyone slavisly following a plan to the letter, I'm sure there are more, like me, who are adopting a more suck-it-and-see approach, or "devising their own plans" as I like to call it.
I figured this might be as good a place as any to thrash out the collective wisdom of Fetch and come up with some sort of general thoughts as to what to expect in an LSR. I know I've had this debate on other threads here, but it would be handy to pool this wisdom in one place.
For what it's worth, the discussion today was based on my own experience. I'm a sub-19 minute 5k runner, and a multi-marathonner. However, my PB is 3:26, which is slow compared to my times over shorter distances. I have speed, therefore, and running a marathon a month I have endurance, but obviously not speed endurance. I explained that I'd run 20 miles last week at 8mm - I'm aiming for 3:00-3:10 in October, thus 7:00-7:10mm on race day. Compared to most of my training partners, PMP +60s is slow!
I'm basing my time, though, on the principle that I'm a 3:30 marathonner on 8:45-9mm LSRs that I was running last year, so running the same distances (4 weekly 16-18-20-26) faster should get my times down. As I see it i@m at the upper end of LSR distance already, so it's the speed I need to work on.
I was told today that I was too fast!
Obviously, I'm happy if people critique my approach, I'm setting myself up for advice anyway, but I'd be interested to know what sort of mileages and paces work for people at various ends of the spectrum.
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Dec 2012
12:04pm, 30 Dec 2012
32,328 posts
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xmashornet
I favour PMP +60-90s and as I'd be looking more at time on my feet than anything else running towards the quicker end doesn't help. Also I'm wary of anything that quotes a standard time to add as for an elite running aiming 5 minute miles at PMP would add 20-30% to their pace whereas someone aiming at 4 hours (9 minute miling or thereabouts) would add only 11-16% to their pace so I like to look at ratios instead. Where I feel people fail to convert good short distance results to marathons is not doing enough LSRs at 20-22 miles, which get you used to the right amount of time on your feet.
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Dec 2012
12:54pm, 30 Dec 2012
49,728 posts
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Gobi
When Marathon training I didn't think of a long run unless it started with a 2.
would often run at PMP + 90 - 150 and never inside + 60 unless I was doing MP
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Dec 2012
1:11pm, 30 Dec 2012
13,331 posts
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DeeGee
Currently I'm planning 2 a month at 20+. I think I was doing that last year but must check. I love running long anyway. I'm interested to see the opinions of two such experienced runners. I have help preparing for my A race again this year but I like to know where each session is leading, and I do get asked for an awful lot of advice myself...
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Dec 2012
6:43pm, 30 Dec 2012
13,332 posts
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DeeGee
Can I ask please Gobi, would you have run 20+ every week when Marathon training?
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Dec 2012
7:35pm, 30 Dec 2012
32,330 posts
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xmashornet
Not Gobi I know but I would have aimed for a 22 miler every other weekend during the build up minimum of 6 preferably 8 during a 12 or 16 week build up. Probably racing on the other weekends, anything from cross country to 10 milers / half marathon at PMP.
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Dec 2012
7:42pm, 30 Dec 2012
1,885 posts
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ndellar
I was doing a 20 pretty much every weekend from beginning of Feb - beginning of April in the run up to Manchester this year.
Instinctively I would call a long run 12+ miles, and coincidentally for me time wise that would start with a "2".
Personally I wouldn't do more than 20/21 as an LSR distance in training as I've seen too many people fail having experimented with doing 24/25/26. I never went above 21/22 when training for Connemara (40) either although like when training for the Quad Maras the training pattern was different to traditional Mara plan.
It seems that very few people have the discipline to stick to a pace zone (e.g "wot Gobi / MX says") on LSRs and speaking for *ME* if I don't put a lid on pace on LSRs and other runs in the week it kills my Marathon. There is no way I'd have got in the volumes of long runs and miles for the Quad Maras without the pacing self control.
I seem to remember you asking for advice doing a Mara in the run up to your target Mara once, but I can't remember how the target race went - do you think it helped / hindered you at all?
I find this sort of thing really interesting, hope my input is useful 
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Dec 2012
8:27pm, 30 Dec 2012
14,502 posts
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JohnnyO
For me its 18-22. Slow is just plodding at something cmfortable. If I am rested it may be faster, but I stick to 'able to talk in full sentences' and hope to be out for about three hours.
If you are knackered the next day, you went too fast.
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Dec 2012
8:36pm, 30 Dec 2012
2,755 posts
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daviec
I use my HRM for all runs and keep my LSR in the sub 75% of max zone, usually nearer 70%. The pace doesn't concern me at this stage but is normally in the MP+90s area.
From habit I don't call it a long run till I go above 17 miles (from my P&D days), but I hit 20+ quite early in my training and then stay there, apart from the odd cut back week when I'll go back down to 18 - so's still to call it a long run.
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Dec 2012
8:59pm, 30 Dec 2012
13,334 posts
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DeeGee
Just to respond to ndellar. The gamble paid big dividends for me as I PBd both GNR the following week and Mabo 3 weeks later. I was very cautious at the Yorkshireman and only wanted to enjoy the day out. I'm sure I would have done even better had I not run Yorkshireman though.
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