Polarized training

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SPR
Nov 2021
5:47pm, 3 Nov 2021
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SPR
I think I understand, your saying most of your running is in the 70-80 zone?

I think most use 10% zones. You'll have to see what the HR trainers here do.

IIRC though, Seiler used a higher number for his zones.
SPR
Nov 2021
5:49pm, 3 Nov 2021
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SPR
I remembered I took a screenshot at the time.

I believe these are just max HR%

Nov 2021
6:06pm, 3 Nov 2021
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Mr. Grumpy
Yes SPR, my easy running is in the 70-80% of ‘max’ zone (zone 3 for me). Although I’ve never done a true max HR test, I’ve done two Lactate Threshold tests, and the 172 max that I use is a calculated guess from where I was heading on the Threshold tests and how much more I expected it to increase had I done another rep beyond what had been planned.
My RHR is 38.
As I questioned back in March on the Heart Rate thread, I was unsure that I was running easy enough on the easy runs, but I was following what I’d been advised following the results of the first test.
I was happy with it all until I had a second test about 18 months later, where I was advised to do the easy runs at 140-148 HR!
SPR
Nov 2021
6:20pm, 3 Nov 2021
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SPR
I'd speak to whoever did the test to understand it. I don't think you ever got a true max? which means your zones might be out. Any easy run can't really be too slow though so I don't get narrow bands. You'd have to understand the training philosophy behind the recommendations.
Nov 2021
6:21pm, 3 Nov 2021
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Mr. Grumpy
Correction - I estimated my max at 180, but set it at 172 on my Polar, as this manipulated the Zone 3 to where I wanted it to be, as per my easy running
Nov 2021
6:26pm, 3 Nov 2021
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Mr. Grumpy
x-post there, but I did intend to raise it with the testing person, but I never ended up going for my review (May 2020) due to everything being shut down due to COVID.
In their defence though, my weekly milage at the time was much less than what it morphed into due to the lockdown etc. which made me question whether the advise was only relevant to the lower milage.
Nov 2021
7:26am, 4 Nov 2021
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Bowman
Interesting this, but the more I learn the more questions I have.
For instance, what is “more” mileage?
Let’s say I average 31 mpw. Maybe that’s Low enough to be able to stress my body with harder work for me? And 80/10/10 is not really necessary? Well for me the mileage feels like it’s up there. Ie an 80/10/10 approach seems ok now, so I’m not overdoing it.

And an other thing, the slow speeds it’s really hard, and I’m not “to good to run slow” it’s just that it doesn’t feel natural to go so slow, and it actually kinda feels like I’m not using the same movements like the natural speed and gait. Which actually makes it sore and aching in new places…

So what’s your opinions about these things?

And an other thing that bugs me.
Cadence. In lower speeds I struggle to go over 160ish, and if I do, I get sore in new places. But when I run faster I naturally ends up between 170-180 and it feels somewhat natural.

If your average mileage was 30-45 mpw, what would your trading sessions be like and in what speeds? (Anyone measuring in metric?)
Nov 2021
8:28am, 4 Nov 2021
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Mr. Grumpy
My own running went from ~65k per week pre COVID to ~95k. I then had a month where I did the equivalent of a HM every day as part of a Virtual Challenge.
Pity I never got to put the increased fitness to good use in a proper race.
Nov 2021
8:30am, 4 Nov 2021
405 posts
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Bowman
But it's not wasted yet i guess grumpy?
J2R
Nov 2021
8:36am, 4 Nov 2021
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J2R
Bowman, I think a really worthwhile exercise is learning to keep your running form at lower speeds. It is a learnable thing you can work on, but does take conscious effort for a while. My natural easy running pace is typically around 8 mins/mile but I can keep my form intact down to 11:30 or so, maybe even slower, but that was not always the case.

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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