The vaporfly thread
86 watchers
Nov 2020
10:19am, 30 Nov 2020
32,314 posts
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SPR
It's the whole model Larkim. It's the amount of foam which leads to the height which is ONLY possible with a plate. As the article says, Adidas own Reebok who have used PEBAX for awhile. Doesn't make sense that they haven't moved to it if it's so great.* *My personal experience is that it is the best racing flat I've had in combining lightness and effective minimal cushioning. |
Nov 2020
10:19am, 30 Nov 2020
72,246 posts
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Gobi
WW - not high for sure 
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Nov 2020
10:46am, 30 Nov 2020
12,809 posts
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larkim
@SPR - yes, you and I know and appreciate that. But the laymans phrase for the shoes is something like the "carbon spring" shoes which does miss the point, surely? The whole shoe concept works. But they aren't really "carbon sprung" shoes, in the way that the journalists refer to them, more or less making them sound like the blades that pistorius etc used? |
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Nov 2020
10:53am, 30 Nov 2020
32,316 posts
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SPR
Larkim, it's complicated but yes they are carbon (and foam) sprung as the stiffness the plate provides is part of the springs quality. No one feels like they're being sprung forward in the Reebok's for example (even if the cushion does provide some spring) as they aren't stiff. |
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Nov 2020
11:07am, 30 Nov 2020
72,250 posts
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Gobi
I was reading about Killian and the salomon shoes , I always think of them as off road kit and avoid onroad variants ..... |
Nov 2020
11:45am, 30 Nov 2020
8,874 posts
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jda
I reckon journalists just went big on the carbon cos of the pistorius blades thing. It was easy to assume it's the same thing.
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Nov 2020
11:58am, 30 Nov 2020
32,317 posts
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SPR
I think it's because its new (yes it has been in shoes before but it wasn't widespread and also there were costs to adding the plate). I don't think it's too far off the mark though. Without the plate the cushioning impact would be limited Re Pistorius, it probably isn't that different . The reduction of work at the ankle with no corresponding increase elsewhere is similar to how the blade work (where there the blades doing the ankle work significantly reduced the energy cost of running). |
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Nov 2020
12:14pm, 30 Nov 2020
8,876 posts
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jda
TBH I thought all (certainly many) running shoes had a stiffener plate of some sort. Adidas were talking about their torsion system years ago which looks like much the same thing in principle if not execution.
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Nov 2020
12:33pm, 30 Nov 2020
32,319 posts
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SPR
Maybe but not one that made a 40mm or higher stack height work and be fast in a normal shoe.
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Nov 2020
12:59pm, 30 Nov 2020
3,258 posts
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J2R
Having finally succumbed and decided I needed to get a pair of these new high-tech shoes, I find that most of them are seemingly impossible to get hold of. Not quite decided which to go for yet, although I'm leaning towards the Saucony Endorphin Pro at the moment. The article referenced above - doctorsofrunning.com - suggests Pebax is pretty well essential and much more important than the carbon plate, but I'm not sure what credence to give this.
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