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Sub 3Hr Marathon

1 lurker | 312 watchers
Jul 2008
1:42pm, 30 Jul 2008
206 posts
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AJPAR
Twopies, you need to tell me where you ate the night before so I can avoid it!!

Srsly that has got to be every runners worst nightmare.
Jul 2008
1:49pm, 30 Jul 2008
7,506 posts
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Dave A
AJPAR. Find what works for you and stick to it.

My favourite pre race meal is baked potatoes and homemade chilli con carne, keeping it as low fat as possible. But baked spud, tuna nad beans has also worked pre race and given me no side effects the day of the race.
Jul 2008
4:43pm, 30 Jul 2008
41 posts
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AlanO
Unsafe Breadbin - I'm going with your philosphy this time. More miles and more marathon paced longer runs at the expense of intervals. Feeling the benefit already as the weight is starting to fall off and feel as if I can run an hour now in my sleep. Ran my 1st midweek longer run this week doing 12 miles this morning on a hill golf course (probably worth a 14 in road terms).

As I previously stated anything in training that is going to give me the confidence entering that last 6-8 miles the better and I feel I'd get far more confidence doing a long midweek run at sub-marathon pace than doing a traditional interval session.

AJPAR - It was just my luck. Had a Lasagne but this time I'll be looking for a baked potato and tuna. I mean how wrong can you get that. On the funny side, the next time you see a dog doing a poo on the street you fully understand why they look totally miserable.
Aug 2008
5:18pm, 3 Aug 2008
44 posts
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AlanO
My plans took a slight knock this morning. Ran my 1st half marathon in 3yrs at Helensburgh and could only manage a 1.26. I can only hope that I can take 2-3 minutes off that time when I tackle Glasgow half in 5 weeks. Another 1.26 will probably scupper any sub 3 chances. On the plus side it was my first half in 3yrs, the weather was crap (monsoon), I never tapered and I hope to be at least 6lbs lighter come Glasgow.
Aug 2008
7:46pm, 3 Aug 2008
195 posts
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Ex-pat Scot
Twopies- the general rule of thumb is a 1:23 to 1:24 half gets you towards the right kind of speed for a sub-3. A lot depends on the endurance you have though.

Tapering does make a big difference though.
Also weight - I read somewhere that you can take 3 secs per mile off per lb - so your predicted 6lb loss should equate to 18 secs per mile.

I've found that monsoon conditions are quite good to run in (except for ultras...) - on a random link, my cousin once worked as manager at Monsoon in Glasgow.
Aug 2008
10:12am, 6 Aug 2008
13,303 posts
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B.B.
Morning sub-3-ers.

Not that this helps morale, but I have done 1:21 and not managed sub-3!! Best so far is 3:06 in Berlin last September. But I didn't really feel it on the day. About a month after the 1:21 I did 3:09 at Boston in miserable conditions on a tough course. I think on that day on a flat course I would have gone sub-3, but hey-ho, that's life.

After consultation with Gobi I'm going to try and get a quality 7-10m tempo run into my weekly schedule, which gets down to PMP (or a little faster) in the last 3 or so miles. That's a big change to previous schedules for me, as in the past I've done 2x intervals (or hill reps), 1x long run + lots of slow miles.

I'm only giving myself 11 weeks of marathon training before Frankfurt as I've been triathlon training this summer, but I think the tri-training has got me pretty fit - just need to get working on the running endurance.

At the track last night I did 8x800m with 200m recoveries. Average 2:46, which i was pretty pleased with. Previous years I've done 10x800m but on much longer (400m) recoveries, so I think last night's shows I'm in decent shape.

What sort of times do you lot do for 800s?
Aug 2008
10:20am, 6 Aug 2008
6,427 posts
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That's good going with the 800s (never done them myself) - looking good for you for sub 3hr (I was surprised you didn't break the 3hr mark last time, but, as you say, the weather didn't exatly help)

Is there anything else different you are doing training wise this time BB (e.g. mileage)?
Aug 2008
10:34am, 6 Aug 2008
4,245 posts
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controversial
hi guys, just my experience and probably reinforces what BB was saying.

Begining of 2007 i was on a PB for marathon of 3.27.xx I did a PB on half marathon of 1.27.30 in feb 07 on the back of that I did paris marathon on 3.10.xx then helsinki on 3.05.xx and new york in 3.00.17 ...

The very important things and were I really improved my training was:
* no need to do specific track/speed work, replace it with tempo runs, if you are looking for a sub 3, you should be looking for tempo runs at under 6 min/mile or about that pace. I have done many of those and they really are the best thing I could have done
* try to see if you can do some 'doubles', you need to be careful with them as they can lead to injury, but i find that doing a hard session in the morning and then a recovery in the evening is tough but again pays back with endurance
* long runs, i am from the school of runs > 23 miles. I usually do a 23 to 25 miles run every sunday at a pace between 3.15 to 3.30 marathon ... not a lot of people here will agree with me on that one
* medium long run: i try to do a 1.30 to 2 hours run in the middle of the week at a pace faster than 3.15 marathon but slower than tempo of course!

I find that such a training regime gives you a lot of endurance and consistent progress. If there is just one thing to take out of all of that is .... tempo runs, tempo runs, tempo runs ... and long run!!!
Aug 2008
11:05am, 6 Aug 2008
13,308 posts
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B.B.
JB - yeah, was in good shape for sub-3 at Boston (apr-07), and I thought also in Berlin (Sep-07). Berlin was a disappointment because the conditions were perfect (Geb ran the world record FFS!). Looking back, I was very bored with the training. Just went through the motions without changing anything from Boston and I just wasn't as focused or hungry. On race day itself I dropped off the pace a bit after halfway as I didn't want to hit the wall, and just cruised in BORED in 3:06. I should have pulled my finger out and done 3:03 or so, even though I knew sub-3 was not on that day.

In terms of what I'm doing different this time... well, everything!!

I took a season off and didn't do a spring marathon, and was only doing 30mpw to keep me ticking over and targeting a half marathon (which I was 5 mins slower than previous year!). Goes to show that to do a fast half marathon you need big mileage, just like marathon!

I think that for me to do well at marathon I need a couple of months of 40mpw endurance base building in my legs before starting a proper 16 weeks training.

However, I hadn't decided on doing an autumn marathon this year until late, so I didn't do the base work. I've done a couple of triathlons this summer, with some good all round training for them - 25-30 hrs a month for almost 3 months. In that I've not beein doing much running though 15-30mpw. So I had all but written off my marathon chances... however, because of the allround fitness of tri training, I seem to be running really well now (over short distances). Although need to do some races to show that. 5K should be great, 10K too. No chance of anything longer!

So after this Saturday's tri I will revert to marathon training - it gives me 11 weeks before Frankfurt. Clearly this is NOT an ideal preparation, but I'll wing it and see how I get on! Unlikely to have much endurance...

I'll be aiming for lower mileage than in previous attempts, but much more quality throughout.

The weekly plan is:
1x intervals
1x 7-10 miler with big tempo element (mainly MP, not 6m/m)
1x mid week long run (10-15m)
1x LSR (from 15m+ and at least 3x21-22m)
1-2 general slow runs
Occasional 5K time trial (untapered)
Aug 2008
11:31am, 6 Aug 2008
202 posts
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Ex-pat Scot
Blimey!

Controversial - you're not wrong in thinking that people will disagree with your approach to doing 23-25 miler at 3:15 to 3:30 mara pace (ie 7:30 to 8:00 miling). In my book that is way too fast, way too frequent, and a bit too long.

I don't disagree with the distance particularly, but trying to do it every weekend, and at such fast pace, is a killer in my opinion. At least for those aiming for a 3:00 marathon! It might be OK for those in the 2:30 camp...

About This Thread

Maintained by jda
All about hitting the magic 2:xx:yy!
Targets 2025
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mattykay
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30 March Ghent
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27 April London
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27 April Manchester
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5 Oct Chester
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========
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