So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005
3 lurkers |
80 watchers
Dec 2017
2:33pm, 18 Dec 2017
25,406 posts
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SPR
I think most people crucifying Froome for this already had their minds made up about him but we're just waiting for some smoke.
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Dec 2017
2:45pm, 18 Dec 2017
25,407 posts
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SPR
*we're = were
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Dec 2017
3:02pm, 18 Dec 2017
3,561 posts
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larkim
Yes - though I don't think Chrisull falls into that category (he might like to confirm or deny that!) Read this on CyclingNews - cyclingweekly.com Have any previous riders been banned for salbutamol? Riders have been banned in the past for returning an AAF for salbutamol. The most recent is Italian rider Diego Ulissi, who returned an AAF for 1900ng/ml of salbutamol druing the 2014 Giro d’Italia. He was suspended from competition for nine months. Among other cases, Alessandro Petacchi was suspended for a year and had five stage wins removed after returning an AAF for salbutamol at the 2007 Giro d’Italia. Other riders have had their cases acquitted due to medical reasons, and were not served a sanction. Final sentence isn't one I've seen bandied about too much, and we may well have little transparency here, but I would be intrigued to get an insight into how many excess salbutamol cases have been heard, investigated and acquitted (more accurately, dismissed). |
Dec 2017
3:35pm, 18 Dec 2017
37,308 posts
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While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night
Nellers, that's an comprehensive summary. Autologous blood transfusion is detectable by fairly straightforward laboratory methods now, so it seems an unlikely source of large quantities of salbutamol and/or its metabolites. I remain inclined towards "innocent" in this instance, because there would be no point overusing salbutamol to try to gain a performance advantage. |
Dec 2017
3:51pm, 18 Dec 2017
12,054 posts
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Chrisull
larks - IF there is doping, I don't think that it is a Sky/company wide thing. It will be down to the individual. Gert Leinders is as badly discredited as Ferrari - I mean a "life ban" kind of says it all. I don't say Froome cheated, or used him (to dope) but he was the Sky doctor and when you are in contact with one doping enabler, surely it's not unlikely you will be in contact with others. I hadn't chalked Froome up as a doper necessarily, but it's these "fringe" failures, a ginseng tea here, a dodgy beef steak there. It is DAMNED hard to catch anyone in the act of doping. Armstrong did it for countless years, and they only they got him was steroid cream for a saddle sore. He had to confess. V'rap - I note that bio passports look for homologous (someone else's) blood transfusions and NOT autologous (your own) transfusions. And I also note this 2016 medical study says - currently there is presently no direct method of detection for autologous blood transfusion (ABT) doping. "https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27260108" - but V'rap I would defer to your knowledge as my biology is sub O level (I never took biology, I did computing instead). Where would you stand on Contador then V'rap  ?
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Dec 2017
3:53pm, 18 Dec 2017
12,055 posts
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Chrisull
Sorry forgot to post the bio passport link, which is here: wada-ama.org
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Dec 2017
3:55pm, 18 Dec 2017
12,056 posts
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Chrisull
SPR - this is more than smoke, and I say there's a greater than 50% chance Froome will receive some sort of ban for this.
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Dec 2017
4:05pm, 18 Dec 2017
37,310 posts
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While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night
Contador? Clenbuterol is always suspicious. It IS known to be performance-enhancing, and there's no legitimate excuse for using it in the management of asthma when other non-performance-enhancing beta-2 agonists are available. Red blood cells deteriorate with storage, and withdrawing blood results in an increase in the synthesis of immature red blood cells, so a shift in the profile of an individual's red blood cells resulting from blood being withdrawn, stored, and transfused should be relatively easy to detect, and I was under the impression that this was done. |
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Dec 2017
4:14pm, 18 Dec 2017
12,057 posts
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Chrisull
Yes I think you're right, I left out (for spaces sake) - the following, which I think is what you're referring to: "Currently there is presently no direct method of detection for autologous blood transfusion (ABT) doping. *****> Blood reinfusion is currently monitored with individual follow-up of hematological variables via the athlete biological passport, which requires further improvement. Microdosage is undetectable, and suspicious profiles in athletes are often attributed to exposure to altitude, heat stress, or illness. Additional indirect biomarkers may increase the sensitivity and specificity of the longitudinal approach. " But I'm gonna guess his biomarkers were off (due to dehydration) anyway, and that will form the defence. The whole bio passport area is still maturing and they get false positives as it is I believe, so they have to be very sure, before throwing the book. |
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Dec 2017
4:15pm, 18 Dec 2017
3,562 posts
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larkim
Armstrong is trotted out as the example of how to cheat, but there was both complicity by teammates, dodgy behaviour by the UCI and bullying behaviour by Armstrong himself that facilitated it - not to mention an attitude in the pro peleton that they needed to stick together so they could all dope with impunity. He's a really bad example to bring to the table, it's a bit like using Godwin's law ( en.wikipedia.org ) of cycling doping. "He didn't fail a test", "It was hard to catch him" etc etc. USADA said LA ran "the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen." Drawing parallels between him and any potentially interesting insight into the Froome situation I think is massively flawed. Whilst I'm sure there remains doping in some corners of the pro cycling world, in the world post-LA you'd have to be a complete lunatic to be trying to subvert things so perversely and with such a high likelihood of it all coming crashing down given how aggressively the media is pursuing this angle. If you were a junior medic involved in a doping programme today, I'd guess you could could make a nice retirement pot with taking your info to the press and blowing the whistle. If Froome has indeed exceeded the 1600mg input of Salbutamol, it would be entirely right for him to take an appropriate punishment, and the reputational damage will far outweigh the size of any penalty, whether or not this is an accident or intentional (in any sense). But equally, if he can satisfy the process that this adverse finding is entirely plausible for his biology / metabolism then we should all carry on as if this never happened - but I very much doubt we will as the public memory doesn't forget this sort of thing. |
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