So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005
80 watchers
Nov 2015
12:29pm, 16 Nov 2015
1,077 posts
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gcwenn
That woman have a massive pair of balls when he was bullying and terrorising everybody else who tried standing in his way. I enjoyed the book by David Walsh "7 deadly sins" |
Dec 2015
10:10am, 4 Dec 2015
8,250 posts
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Chrisull
Ross Tucker on the Froome data: sportsscientists.com Synopsis - good as far as it goes, but lack of biological data and lack of ANY data between 2007 and 2011 totally muddies the water and makes it no clearer. |
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Dec 2015
1:04pm, 4 Dec 2015
8,258 posts
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Chrisull
No one commenting here, but let's pick up and run with a possible controversial implication from what Ross Tucker is saying... he wants data from between 2007 and 2011, where Froome goes from mid pack rider to top notch rider. He says weight loss could explain this, but in absence of data, that isn't enough. (and we know weight loss can also be drug aided anyway with diuretics and such like) So the implication is that it's ALSO possible (I am NOT saying it is, I hope Froome is clean and welcome the releasing of his data) that Froome doped during this time. Now here's the worrying bit... we accept he's probably not doping now, and the testing was good and the passport system while flawed is quite comprehensive. So is it being said that it is possible he doped between 2007 and 2011 and doesn't dope now but is still seeing the benefits from that doping??? Because that's one implication I read. And this isn't about Froome, to me this could be Contador, Valverde, you name it. They dope. They cheat. They serve their time. They come back 2 years later. That doping still makes them a better rider than they were (and they were very good to start with). So IF that is correct, that doesn't feel right (as in just) to me? |
Dec 2015
1:15pm, 4 Dec 2015
13,297 posts
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The Teaboy
It's claimed that power has remained the same, only the weight has decreased. He was actually 3kg over his Tour weight when they tested him and he produced the same raw power values as during then. He wouldn't be the first to lose weight and retain power - Wiggo followed the same modus operandi. It was claimed Lance had too, but examination of the data available refutes that. In raw physiological terms, Froome's W/kg at sustain is at the very upper end of what might be humanly possibly riding clean. That's to be expected from a tour winner. It neither clears not condemns. He is in that grey performance area that could be achievable clean, but not quite into the definitely must have been on the juice. They did release a couple of Off Scores, but without complete context they mean very little. We'd need to see the whole bio passport and have it analysed by an expert. I tend towards clean with Froome. Just as I tend towards dirty with Valverde and some others. What Froome doesn't deserve is the vitriol that is far more worthy of being thrown in the direction of a few other riders I could mention. But, Sky have most certainly not helped themselves in this regard with their retraction of stated openness they had at the start of the project and their somewhat robotic manner of Grand Tour racing. Oh, and being British... |
Dec 2015
1:17pm, 4 Dec 2015
18,845 posts
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Derby Tup
Winning is also bad. We're happier as eternal also-rans or unlucky losers
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Dec 2015
1:19pm, 4 Dec 2015
18,846 posts
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Derby Tup
My logic is a percentage of a GT field is riding juiced. The winner has to beat the clean riders plus every single cheat. A clean winner has to be (would have to be exceptionally talented and well trained)
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Dec 2015
1:21pm, 4 Dec 2015
8,261 posts
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Chrisull
Teaboy - totally agree. But is it possible that Valverde's doping is still helping his performance now? Is the same possible in athletics, the 100m where steroids to help increase muscle mass still aid the athlete long after the time has been served and the doping finished with?
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Dec 2015
1:29pm, 4 Dec 2015
4,346 posts
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Dai Bank
As I've said before I choose to believe that Froome is clean and I tend to agree with Teaboy that Froome's capabilities are in that area that could suggest either that he may have or may not have been enhancing his performance. I rather suspect not, but that leaves me open to looking foolish at some possible future time, I'll take the risk. I recall an interview with Doug Dailey from BC who had been watching Froome as an under 23 at some event or other, might have been the Worlds where he knocked the marshal over, and Dailey suggested to Brailsford that Froome had something. It's not as if potential wasn't spotted at an early date. As ever when looking at a snapshot of anything all it does is raise questions that can only answered by looking at trends over time and assessing how and why any variations have occurred.We have no information provided over time to assess so all that can be done is speculate, in my view such speculation has no value. Removing the bilharzia strain could answer some questions but merely give an opportunity to ask more and in other areas. |
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Dec 2015
1:30pm, 4 Dec 2015
4,347 posts
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Dai Bank
I think that the enhancement does persist after a period of banning, or not taking anything Chris
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Dec 2015
1:43pm, 4 Dec 2015
4,348 posts
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Dai Bank
Although I have been a fan of cycling for over 35 years I have seen a marked reduction in the weight of cyclists at the highest level. We had a number of Welsh and GB team members at my then club throughout the '90s and early 2000s but it seemed that even at the Milk Race, the Kellogs, Prutours and such that the competitors were lean but muscly. When I went to France to see Roubaix in the mid 90s I was stunned by how slim the top riders were and frankly shocked by some of the road racers at the Manchester Commonwealths, they seemed to be anorexic by comparison to the riders that our club had at that event, albeit on the Track at Manchester. I think that part of the reason for the changes has been the reduction in gearing over the last 20 years, you had to be strong to turn 42x21/22/23/24 as your lowest gear and you needed a measure of upper body strength to pull on the bars. With the benefit of specific training, better nutrition and a reduction in gearing allowing seated climbing that need for upper body strength has diminished. I also accept that rider like Contador confound that by climbing for so long out of the saddle but I think he's one of the few exceptions. |
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