Nov 2024
5:27pm, 17 Nov 2024
9,992 posts
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simbil
Public ownership isn't on the table though so we're left with who would be better (or least bad I guess from your perspective) - smaller farmers or bigger players. If the tax changes mean the latter, are you happier with that or not fussed either way?
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Nov 2024
5:30pm, 17 Nov 2024
30,156 posts
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richmac
I believe that the perceived argument that wealthy land owners are putting in your mouth is smoke screen to protect their interests.
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Nov 2024
6:27pm, 17 Nov 2024
9,993 posts
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simbil
It's certainly not a simple issue and of course they are protecting their interests. The question is whether they have a good argument or not.
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Nov 2024
9:08pm, 17 Nov 2024
26,131 posts
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larkim
Are farms different business models to other businesses that owners might want to pass to their offspring? Are their assets so lacking in liquidity (compared to other businesses) that the burden of having to find a substantial sum of cash on death really imperils the continuity of the business for the future more than other businesses? I can see in some "genuine" scenarios this is a real issue; the only main asset in the farm being the land that is farmed, the land having a relatively low value per acre, a sale of enough to satisfy the tax due (even over ten years) being sufficient to render the farm economically unviable etc. But that all could be true for a family manufacturing business which is operating on tight margins without much cash on hand too. |
Nov 2024
9:09pm, 17 Nov 2024
494 posts
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DaveG
The arguments against agricultural inheritance tax has nothing to do with farmers or landowners. It's the anti-tax brigade having an opportunity to push their anti-tax agenda. I wonder how much of the more general thinktanks are pushing this agenda and getting it the coverage. Normally, the argument is that rich people should contribute more. The super-rich don't like that. This was given them an opportunity to say 'taxing rich food producers is bad because we need food', and try to get people thinking it's sometimes socially beneficial for rich people not to pay tax. That's why we shouldn't be talking about inheritance tax for farmers. It's for rich farmers only. If people want to make the claim that £3m of personal wealth doesn't make you rich, then they have the right to look foolish. |
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Nov 2024
10:01pm, 17 Nov 2024
26,132 posts
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larkim
I mostly agree. But hidden inside there is probably a real concern for some family owned farms that *might* be getting overshadowed by the high wealth farm owners using their influence to kick up the issue because of their own self interest.
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Nov 2024
8:12am, 18 Nov 2024
18,134 posts
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jda
I reckon a lot of it is just anti-Labour agitation from Tory farmers. They didn’t converge on Downing Street when the tories ripped up their EU market and subsidies. |
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Nov 2024
8:19am, 18 Nov 2024
26,133 posts
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larkim
Agree that's mostly it. Navigating handover of family businesses through generations (often something we actively want to encourage as a country e.g. the local family bakery, the local family joinery business etc) isn't something most of us have to deal with and it's a niche area of the inheritance tax landscape. Farms are asset rich businesses in different ways to other potential family businesses where the "goodwill" in the business is the key piece of value, which I don't think gets taken into account when the estate is valued so perhaps farms do present a different challenge to getting fair IHT arrangements applied?
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Nov 2024
8:27am, 18 Nov 2024
18,135 posts
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jda
Why do you think goodwill a key part of the value?
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Nov 2024
8:29am, 18 Nov 2024
30,163 posts
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richmac
jdawayinamanger wrote: I reckon a lot of it is just anti-Labour agitation from Tory farmers. They didn’t converge on Downing Street when the tories ripped up their EU market and subsidies. This |
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