Aug 2023
12:17pm, 14 Aug 2023
15,300 posts
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jda
Performative cruelty designed to grab headlines with no regard as to the usefulness of the approach. They've basically given up governing and are trying to make the country ungovernable instead.
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Aug 2023
4:41pm, 14 Aug 2023
411 posts
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deslauriers
There are a fair few sources showing the barges are not cheaper than other forms of accommodation E.g reclaimthesea.org.uk There is evidence that the contract was "quietly" given to an Australian firm CTM, with several documents redacted marineindustrynews.co.uk I'd suggest that while claims in the tweet (or the X post?) were not directly sourced, they weren't spurious. They being said, given that there is no financial or practical reason to house asylum seekers on the barges, it would suggest the reason is ideological. |
Aug 2023
4:51pm, 14 Aug 2023
21,726 posts
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larkim
The whole point of the barge is that we are giving asylum seekers worse conditions than the natives. And, I'll say it quietly, I'm slightly OK with that. Because a lot of poverty in the UK results in people living in still worse quality accommodation than that barge. Temporary accommodation whilst being processed doesn't need to be particularly above average, it needs to meet an acceptable level of standard; clean, healthy, private, access to meaingful activities, healthcare, food, exercise etc. So long as it does meet those things, even if it is far from perfect, it is acceptable. Now, it may be that the intent of the barge won't meet those standards - in which case it is just as bad as any other short term temporary solution. Most of all it needs to be temporary and short-stay because processing happens effectively so that those receiving asylum can be transitioned into starting a normal life in the UK. A newly qualified relative of mine working in an NHS practice in an area with significant asymlum seeking population noted that what he sees on the ground is a system which is just not joined up in any way. As an example, he cited a family group which was separate with the children living in a children's home, the father living 2 towns away in a B&B and both the NHS practices involved in looking after that family were strained by health concerns arising almost entirely out of the fact that the family had been separated. Plus his observation (may be too simplistic) was that it was always clear from the start which asylum seekers would be cleared, because there was an almost 1:1 relationship between their country of origin and their success. There was no complex process to follow, most cases were very very simple. |
Aug 2023
5:01pm, 14 Aug 2023
42,204 posts
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SPR
Not surprised you're ok with it, that's precisely the calculation that's been made and fits with all the surveying that's been done. I expect you can't see yourself in that situation either, not that that necessarily helps with everyone, as seen by the Tories that are implementing. Lift all up, rather than saying others have it worse. |
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Aug 2023
5:04pm, 14 Aug 2023
412 posts
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deslauriers
Larkim The government is spaffing money on barges that will not speed up claims (for all the information you kindly provide on the apparent ease of processing, there is still a considerable backlog). This money could be used for many other practical purposes that could benefit asylum seekers and UK citizens. The fact that the barges will do nothing for the speed of processing means their temporary nature is misleading at best. Given the lack of benefits from the barges beyond appealing to certain section of the electorate, it is difficult to see how else they can be of use. |
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Aug 2023
5:23pm, 14 Aug 2023
21,727 posts
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larkim
All I'm saying is that by focussing on "barge" we're missing the bigger picture. "Barge" could be "bedsit" could be "hotel" could be "military camp". Wherever we temporarily house asylum seekers the standards should meet an acceptable minimum *at least*. There is a separate issue about procurement and cost of barges (but I suspect a lot of the temp accommodation per unit is pretty high anyway, given the pressures on housing stock in the UK anyway due to other govt failings) and it's fine to have that debate and challenge to the govt. But 500 beds (or even just 39, based on the numbers who were put on there and then swiftly removed when the health risks were properly identified) is such a small number compared to the volumes arriving (and no, the volumes arriving are not huge in themselves, so I'm am not at all concern about the number of asylum seekers - I'd take 10x as many and do our part properly as part of the international effort to help) that either the volume is a complete red herring - it's just a dog whistle to the RW nutters out there OR the stays on that location will be so short lived because the processing is happening swiftly and effectively that any temporary residence on there is acceptable and agreeable. I know the latter is laughable with this govt in place - people will languish on there, they will let the standard drop, there will be problems created. But a well run, temporary housing location that looks like the barge and is genuinely temporary is not a problem, even if the standards are akin to perhaps a hall of residence in student accommodation. |
Aug 2023
5:26pm, 14 Aug 2023
9,809 posts
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Fields
Not surprised you're ok with it, that's precisely the calculation that's been made and fits with all the surveying that's been done. I expect you can't see yourself in that situation either, not that that necessarily helps with everyone, as seen by the Tories that are implementing. Lift all up, rather than saying others have it worse. Rawlsian (liberal thinker) position |
Aug 2023
5:31pm, 14 Aug 2023
4,703 posts
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J2R
While there may actually be practical reasons for choosing this barge to house the asylum seekers, you can be damned sure that they didn't form any part of the decision-making process for the Government on this issue. This is all about performative cruelty for the benefit of the Express/Mail/Sun/Telegraph readers - making sure to show that these vulnerable people are being housed somewhere uncomfortable and cramped and humiliating. Even if it was costing 10 times as much to do this as to put them somewhere decent, that's what Braverman et al would do.
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Aug 2023
5:42pm, 14 Aug 2023
413 posts
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deslauriers
But the fact that they are willing to waste money on highly visible barges (recalling prison barges from the 19th century) rather than seek solutions that would deal with the backlog is the point.
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Aug 2023
5:50pm, 14 Aug 2023
9,810 posts
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Fields
Not in the least surprised to learn that Starmer was in a cia linked secret group, whilst shadow Brexit secretary, something which wouldn’t have been allowed had he told Corbyn (bit like when he was blocked from being an adviser to Mishcon de Reya). He remained a member while leader. The only other member as a serving MP was confirmed former spook and neo-colonialist Rory Stewart declassifieduk.org The current Labour leader served as Jeremy Corbyn’s shadow Brexit secretary from 2016-19. In this role, he was integral to the push for a second referendum on exiting the European Union, a position that many fault for Labour’s catastrophic performance in the 2019 election. Given that another member of this clandestine group was ex CIA boss Pompeii who is on record as saying “we will do our level best” to stop Corbyn getting elected, it suggests Starmer is culpable for the 2019 defeat and deliberately engineered Brexit policy to lose the election, oust Corbyn and place himself in power. Yet another Labour leader content nay desperate to be a lapdog to the US. Wonder how many illegal wars Starmer will start? What other lies has he told, what other secrets has he kept from the British people? |
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