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Jul 2023
11:14am, 21 Jul 2023
3,028 posts
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paulcook
Seems like one of the bigger implications of the results is the ULEZ stance. John Redwood and Lord Frost, perhaps others?, both urging Sunak to roll back net zero, anti-motorist, greener policies. Yet, the result in Somerton, suggests that much of the Green share (10%) came from the Tories.
I do think the results do demonstrate we'd quite like greener policies just as long as they don't impact us individually.
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Jul 2023
12:12pm, 21 Jul 2023
9,702 posts
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simbil
Chris, if your first choice is green, your second choice is anyone but the Tories and you vote green in Uxbridge, then yes you are partly to blame for the result. Given we have the system we have, you'd end up in a Lexiter like position of making it worse right now in the woolly hope of some better future somewhere down the line.
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Jul 2023
12:24pm, 21 Jul 2023
20,556 posts
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Chrisull
I don't agree. If we have a Tory govt come 2030, I'd argue that is worse.
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Jul 2023
12:30pm, 21 Jul 2023
30,632 posts
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Johnny Blaze
A few hundred more tactical votes and it would have been 3 for 3 and another bale of straw would have been loaded on Tory backs.
As it is they now have a newly minted Tory MP to give Rish! a glimmer of hope, a new attack line for the GE and said MP is no doubt a Brexity stop the boats twerp as well
But what's all that compared to the self-satisfaction that comes from throwing a vote away in a self-destructive fit of "principle".
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Jul 2023
12:36pm, 21 Jul 2023
9,703 posts
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simbil
Why is Tory 2030 worse than Tory next session (and possibly in 2030 and beyond as well)?
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Jul 2023
12:50pm, 21 Jul 2023
30,633 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I was wondering that… they’d have to go some to be worse than the 2019 crew.
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Jul 2023
1:48pm, 21 Jul 2023
2,736 posts
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Surelynot
The road we are on is dangerous but let's not go along a different one. We can continue on the same one, but at a slower speed. It's not as bad as that other lot who want to go full speed.
Don't suggest there's a better way. Don't ever think that you can set out the reasons why there is a better way. People can never be convinced. Principles. They are of no value. You are putting it all at risk if you think otherwise.
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Jul 2023
2:41pm, 21 Jul 2023
9,704 posts
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simbil
Making the least bad practical choice doesn't mean we have to stop asking for more choices and pointing out better ways, but we still have to make a practical choice given where we are right now. It doesn't mean we can't have principles - it means we have the wisdom to compromise for a better outcome rather than creating a worse outcome whilst wishing for perfection.
Making perfection the enemy of better is where unbending principles become a problem.
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Jul 2023
3:07pm, 21 Jul 2023
30,634 posts
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Johnny Blaze
The serenity prayer comes to mind...
I know that no government past, present or future will give me everything I want. But I also know that at this time the only realistic chance for progressive policies will come from a moderate Labour government, so that's where I'm aiming.
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Jul 2023
3:11pm, 21 Jul 2023
30,635 posts
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Johnny Blaze
"Everybody" hates centrist, managerial, incremental politics. The Right thinks they are wishy-washy, soft, spendthrift and overbearing, the Left thinks they are sellouts and trimmers, afraid to instigate real change because they are timid and cynical.
So be it.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
