Nov 2022
12:11pm, 18 Nov 2022
23,943 posts
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Bazoaxe
Pensions are a ponzi scheme is on my fozzy bingo card making sure he sees that 
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Nov 2022
12:42pm, 18 Nov 2022
7,505 posts
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Fields
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Nov 2022
12:48pm, 18 Nov 2022
19,645 posts
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larkim
Are there employer funds for those larkim or is it just the employee portion that is funded ? Both. There are actual cash funds held as the asset portion, divied up into different investment buckets and allocated by employer matched off with employee liabilities. So for example the Merseyside fund holds just abut 11bn of property, investments, cash, bonds, etc against just over 11bn properly valued liabilities. Employer contribution rates in cash terms are around 18% (!) and employers are both the local authorities in the area (e.g. Liverpool CC, Knowsley Borough council etc), local admitted bodies (e.g. charities) and other semi-state bodies like FE colleges. |
Nov 2022
1:16pm, 18 Nov 2022
17,917 posts
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Cerrertonia
The state pension isn't a Ponzi scheme either. Well, not unless you think money itself is. The UK government can create any number of pounds, whenever it likes, by pressing some buttons on a computer. It makes no sense for the British government to 'save up' pension contributions in a fund somewhere. ons.gov.uk A company or university, or local authority obviously can't do that, so their pension funds need to own assets or income streams to match the future liabilities. |
Nov 2022
1:35pm, 18 Nov 2022
6,384 posts
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ThorntonRunner
The state pension is a welfare benefit, paid like other benefits from current tax (and NI) revenue
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Nov 2022
1:40pm, 18 Nov 2022
28,913 posts
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Johnny Blaze
But is it? Because what you get depends on what you pay in? Genuine question. Might be semantics. Dunno. |
Nov 2022
1:43pm, 18 Nov 2022
44,652 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Fozzy, do you mean specifically state pensions or private pensions? Private pensions have pots of money which grow or contract based on where they are invested and are then paid back to the pensioner in various different ways on retirement. State pension isn't a pot, as Cerrertonia explains above, it is based on government borrowing (or surplus, but not sure any governments run a surplus) So actually, the only Ponzi bit is that all governments effectively live beyond their means, on the assumption of future growth, and all financial institutions are prepared to lend them money on that basis, as the "safest" form of lending and return. So... actually... "all government and global international finance is a Ponzi scheme" might be a more accurate accusation?! G
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Nov 2022
1:43pm, 18 Nov 2022
28,914 posts
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Johnny Blaze
It seems there are universal benefits and contributory benefits... "As Dilnot, Kay and Morris (1984) pointed out in their comprehensive review of social security policy, 'The Beveridge report took the contributory principle extremely seriously. Contributions were to be levied on an actuarially calculated basis to reflect the benefits received'. But 'the retreat from this principle has been comprehensive ... the National Insurance fund was reduced to meaningless accounting and the actuarial link between contributions and benefits abandoned'. In this strong sense, we have never operated a contributory principle." So that seems like it then. |
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Nov 2022
1:45pm, 18 Nov 2022
6,385 posts
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ThorntonRunner
Other benefits also have conditions attached. And its not so much that what you get depends on what you've paid in but rather that you’ve hit a certain level of taxation for a certain number of years. But as you say - there is an element of semantics to it.
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Nov 2022
1:45pm, 18 Nov 2022
6,386 posts
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ThorntonRunner
(I'm slow - that was in response to JB 28913)
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