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Feb 2022
12:31pm, 4 Feb 2022
17,542 posts
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richmac
Thanks, so in response I raise an eyebrow at a pensioner who I think lives in Scotland thinking that's funny.
Second, the UK goverment pays pensions to loads of people living abroad.
Third, after 1947, thousands of Indian/Pakistan citizens were entitled to benefits/pensions for their service before during and after the war/Independence from r uk. These payments and pensions continued well in the early 2000's and some may even continue to this day.
So yeah, you don't take money off people for decades for a pension then think it's not enforceable just because you've acted like a massive prick.
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Feb 2022
12:32pm, 4 Feb 2022
21,717 posts
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DeeGee
If I moved overseas and renounced UK citizenship, would I still have pension rights or does it require citizenship - think it would be lost?
My German born MiL (UK resident since before we joined the EEC) not only receives her German state pension, but is also taxed on it by Germany.
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Feb 2022
12:32pm, 4 Feb 2022
8,229 posts
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Dooogs
Householders or someone holding a hose?
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Feb 2022
12:33pm, 4 Feb 2022
21,718 posts
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DeeGee
Householders or someone holding a hose?
Maybe both 
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Feb 2022
12:35pm, 4 Feb 2022
2,503 posts
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Fields
Very apt analogy there DeeGee.
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Feb 2022
12:37pm, 4 Feb 2022
41,301 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Um, I get that governments don't accumulate money in real pots (I didn't really think there was a big jam jar in Threadneedle street with a load of coppers and notes stuffed into it!)
But virtually, money has been contributed by citizens for pensions over years. Like any "divorce" settlement, monies contributed during the period of the relationship need to be taken into account in the separation agreement. That's all I meant.
And I think others above have cited plenty of examples of where that has actually been paid directly by the citizen's former country too, which I hadn't even thought of.
It will be a matter of negotiation and settlement. I don't think it is likely that it can just be "taken away" or ignored. G
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Feb 2022
12:39pm, 4 Feb 2022
11,949 posts
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jda
Living abroad is only part of the issue, payment of tax revenues is another. In the case of pensioners living abroad there’s presumably an aspect of reciprocity with (say) Spanish pensioners retiring in the UK getting a Spanish pension. Of course there aren’t many of those!
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Feb 2022
12:40pm, 4 Feb 2022
9,408 posts
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simbil
My German born MiL (UK resident since before we joined the EEC) not only receives her German state pension, but is also taxed on it by Germany.
Yep, just looked into it some more and I was wrong to assume UK payments depend on citizenship. So surprisingly, there is a precedent for leaving the club and still having some of the benefits in the case of pensions.
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Feb 2022
12:44pm, 4 Feb 2022
15,722 posts
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Cerrertonia
It's also very much not the case that money taken in as national insurance is put aside into a special pot and paid out as a pension decades later. There would no UK state pension assets to share out in the event of a split. It would make absolutely no sense for the system to operate in that way either.
In spite of the efforts of various right-wing politicians to convince us otherwise, government finances are fundamentally different from household finances. The UK government can create as many pounds as it likes, at the push of the button. Of course, doing so has implications for foreign exchange and inflation and so on, but it would make no sense for money taken in through PAYE to be held in a special account and paid out decades later. (An independent Scotland which used the Euro or British Pound would not have this ability to simply create money as needed, of course.)
A more nuanced (and truthful) answer by the SNP might have been to say that an independent Scotland would operate an identical state pension system, with the same accrued rights and obligations, records of national insurance payments would be transferred and so forth. And that other pensions, whether public sector, or private would continue to operate as before. But that doesn't fit neatly into a soundbite.
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Feb 2022
12:49pm, 4 Feb 2022
15,723 posts
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Cerrertonia
Um, I get that governments don't accumulate money in real pots (I didn't really think there was a big jam jar in Threadneedle street with a load of coppers and notes stuffed into it!) But virtually, money has been contributed by citizens for pensions over years. Like any "divorce" settlement, monies contributed during the period of the relationship need to be taken into account in the separation agreement. That's all I meant. And I think others above have cited plenty of examples of where that has actually been paid directly by the citizen's former country too, which I hadn't even thought of. It will be a matter of negotiation and settlement. I don't think it is likely that it can just be "taken away" or ignored. G
When national insurance was introduced in the 1930s, it was immediately paid out again in the form of newly introduced state pensions. If the argument is that Scots have paid into the system through NI, it's also the case that Scots immediately received payment from the system in the form of pensions.
If an independent Scotland wanted to continue paying out state pensions, it would presumably need to continue taking in money through taxation to fund that. If the idea is that rUK would pay out those pensions, the inference must be that Scottish workers will continue to pay money in via national insurance, to HMRC. Which surely isn't what the SNP is proposing?
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