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Nov 2019
1:07pm, 26 Nov 2019
9,581 posts
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larkim
You're pushing at an open door HG - no-one can dispute what you're saying. But the fact is that those views persist, and are often so entwined with the left's view of the world that is fighting against them that they don't see it as racist or offensive. cf. Corbyn and that mural. It seems that at first glance the imagery used simply didn't trigger the "that's anti-Semitic" response.
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Nov 2019
1:11pm, 26 Nov 2019
6,936 posts
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Too Much Water
So if an undecided voter, decide on Election Day if you’re feeling more anti-Semitic or more Islamaphobic and vote accordingly?
Note the above is meant to be flippant⬆️
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Nov 2019
1:17pm, 26 Nov 2019
9,585 posts
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larkim
I've said before that the difference between the left's issue with anti-semitism and the right's issue with islamaphobia is that we all* expect the right to be at least a little bit racist, where as we expect the left to be paragons of moral virtue.
*Gross generalisation - though I certainly believe that.
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Nov 2019
1:23pm, 26 Nov 2019
33,393 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Lol larks - yes, indeed. We judge the left more harshly for transgression because we expect better. And I think that's reasonable in many ways. It's hard to take, esp if you are losing out as a political party, but care, consideration, openness, fairness, inclusivity - these are some of the traits that I expect of a party I support and should inform their policies but should be exhibited in their behaviours. Tough to be so righteous, but there it is!
(thanks for that last sentence TMW, in a text based forum, it really does help!!)  G
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Nov 2019
1:32pm, 26 Nov 2019
6,937 posts
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Too Much Water
Think Larkim has a point, if you want equality etc that has to include equality for the captains and the kings as well as the ordinary man.
Must be hard from a human perspective to seize or gain power and not take retribution however.
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Nov 2019
2:01pm, 26 Nov 2019
8,284 posts
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simbil
DG, regarding that link, I always thought 'North London metropolitan elite' was a dig at Corbyn and his Archway / Islington roots?
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Nov 2019
2:27pm, 26 Nov 2019
22,928 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Well, it seems to me that Jews have been one of the most persecuted groups in human history, so I don't think gentiles get to tell them how and why they should be taking a chill pill in the current climate. I have no doubt there are plenty of Labour supporters who have a jaundiced view of Jewish people because I've seen some of the rubbish some of them post online. Corbyn's shift to the left and his longstanding sympathy for the Palestinian cause has to some degree legitimised the ramping up of anti-Zionist rhetoric in the party. Whether those people are purely anti-Israel or also have anti-Jewish feelings bundled up with that is a matter of individual judgement. I don't think I get to tell Jews in the Labour Party that their feelings are completely unwarranted because Jezza is such a nice guy, though. He may be nice but his followers aren't always. In fact some of them have a default hate setting for anyone who questions the wounds of Jezza.
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Nov 2019
2:40pm, 26 Nov 2019
9,590 posts
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larkim
"I don't think I get to tell Jews in the Labour Party that their feelings are completely unwarranted because Jezza is such a nice guy, though." This, 100%.
I've already seen some FB commentary, and I wish I could have put my comments to my acquaintances in this manner so clearly. They would of course have ranted that "media bias against Corbyn" means the story has legs, and that those who raise the issue within the party are opposed to him in any event. But as I posted earlier, I think those comments are, even sublminally, just a step away from "blah blah the Jewish controlled media" and "blah blah Zionists within the party" etc etc. They just don't see it.
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Nov 2019
2:44pm, 26 Nov 2019
18,973 posts
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DeeGee
Having lived for a while in Archway, I don't remember many elites.
Although that was in the late 1990s, so I'd imagine the whole place has gentrified beyond belief now. In those days I was politely talked out of drinking in an Irish pub as it wasn't the sort of place for (English) people like me and the place was awash with folk who'd just recently been turned out of the asylum.
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Nov 2019
2:47pm, 26 Nov 2019
5,854 posts
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jda
I absolutely think Jews should be able to feel what they want. It's poor judgement and/or weakness on Corbyn's part, for sure. But I don't think it is that reasonable for the issue to be such a dominant one in the current political context.
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