|
Aug 2019
12:49pm, 27 Aug 2019
18,793 posts
|
DeeGee
It's a shame that the Kent/Essex border comparison doesn't really work, since, for all intents and purposes, there is a border between Kent and Essex, and people spend £4 a day to cross there and back so there's probably not, proportionally so many people making the crossing several times daily. Its not a regulatory border, but there is a significant cost in terms of money and time to cross it.
|
|
Aug 2019
1:05pm, 27 Aug 2019
2,207 posts
|
J2R
Here's a question I've been wondering about. For all his bluster, and his complete and total lack of principle, there is a very strong possibility that Boris Johnson does not really want to plunge the country off a cliff at the end of October with a No Deal exit. This is not because he cares about the damage to the country, of course he doesn't. But he is fully aware of what that damage is likely to be - he's no idiot, and he will have seen all those reports which are clearly too scary to let the public see. So he will know that there is a very strong likelihood that he will be held responsible for the damage - despite all the attempts to prime the public to blame the EU, Remainers, whatever - and will be worried that his time at the top will be very short and will end in utter ignominy and disgrace.
So, what does he actually do now to pull out of the dive? What options are open to him? Can he somehow pretend to be forced into revoking Article 50?
|
|
Aug 2019
1:25pm, 27 Aug 2019
8,128 posts
|
simbil
He can maybe be forced into an extension and a General Election and I'm sure that eventuality is covered in his plans and possibly his primary plan.
Whether renegotiating is a serious plan or not is questionable. I guess he will leave that door open for all kinds of reasons - serves the blame game well, makes Tory rebels unsure when to rebel and there is an outside change he will get a concession good enough to take back to Parliament if he wants a chance of passing it or it suits him to see it voted down.
I can't see how revoking A50 would work for him though.
|
|
Aug 2019
1:31pm, 27 Aug 2019
8,409 posts
|
larkim
Sounds like Corbyn has played the meeting with the anti-no-deal parliamentary senior bods well today. Prioritising opposing no deal through legislative means, saving VONC for nuclear option in October when there is a far better chance of getting the necessary Tory MPs onboard to support bringing down their own party in government.
Credit where it's due, I'll put that in the bin named "Corbyn shows leadership material".
|
|
Aug 2019
2:12pm, 27 Aug 2019
9,517 posts
|
Markymarkmark
A small bin, larkim? 
based purely upon the news reports from various places, much as I quite approve of many of his "socialist" policies, and I think he's probably quite a nice sort of thoughtful and intelligent bloke, he doesn't strike me as having the "edge" needed to truly lead the country. (Sort of like how I felt about John Major, oddly.)
Mind you, to my mind nor does the current Prime Minister.
Boris is leading now solely because there was no other serious contender who could show statesmanship and unite even the one political party, never mind a true Government of National Unity.
|
|
Aug 2019
2:23pm, 27 Aug 2019
8,412 posts
|
larkim
Tiny bin, holds pencil sharpenings etc. But I'm prepared to buy a bigger bin if necessary.
|
|
Aug 2019
2:36pm, 27 Aug 2019
2,208 posts
|
J2R
Yes, you could knock me down with a feather! Corbyn actually seems to have done the right thing there (rather than precisely the wrong thing, as has been his habit for the last 3 years). Attempting to use legislative means to prevent No Deal is clearly a better approach than the highly risky and fragile VONC tactic.
Of course, if it succeeds it will result in a cacophony of 'betrayal' howls from Brexiters, and will be presented in the press as the elitist Parliament using tricks to deny the "will of the people". But, you know what, I'm beyond caring. I'd rather put up with 25% of the people being in a permanent state of anger and feeling betrayed, than that my country should be destroyed just to appease them. I gave up hope of bringing the No Dealers along in any settlement ages ago, when it became apparent that they were determined to live in a perpetual fact-free bubble. I don't think they would even realise the error of their ways if we left without a deal and they lost their jobs as a result, they still wouldn't accept that all those experts who have been warning about this all along were right, unlike their mate Baz down the pub who said it was all going to be great.
|
|
Aug 2019
2:50pm, 27 Aug 2019
5,035 posts
|
jda
Johnson is leading simply because 92,000 old men like his politically incorrect speaking and persona of affable bonhomie. Appearances on HIGNFY and regular articles in the Telegraph won't have harmed.
|
|
Aug 2019
2:56pm, 27 Aug 2019
5,036 posts
|
jda
and I also agree with J2R above, the fact that the majority of over-65 brexiters would regard even their own family members losing jobs as a price well worth paying for their beloved brexit is ample evidence that they are simply not susceptible to rational debate. They won't change their minds under any circumstances but can be defeated if sufficient others oppose them.
|
|
Aug 2019
3:00pm, 27 Aug 2019
8,129 posts
|
simbil
I'm of the opinion that characterising all Brexiters or some demographic split of them is both probably incorrect and definitely unhelpful to getting any kind of dialog going or future resolution.
There are definitely some noisey leavers that are not worth talking to as they are not interested in other view points. But it ain't all of them.
|
