Polarized training
91 watchers
Feb 2017
4:57pm, 8 Feb 2017
4,982 posts
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Ceratonia
I did my 2nd lot of Billat 30-30 last night. I'm also running slightly further/faster than required, although that's more down to finding it hard to judge the required pace over 30s in the dark. I've also struggled to do anything other than walk the 30s recovery. While it feels very hard while you're doing it, it's also quite exhilarating. I plan to do one session of this per week for the next 8 weeks. Suspect that it will have some measurable effect as I only occasionally did anything that could be called 'speedwork' previously.
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Feb 2017
6:04pm, 8 Feb 2017
329 posts
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J2R
@Ceratonia, good to hear you're doing the 30-30s. I suspect you might be running the intervals too hard if you can't manage easy (and I mean really easy, half interval speed) recoveries. It may not matter much, though, as long as you can do the requisite number of reps without getting prematurely tired. I don't think there's any clear evidence that you need to jog, the point is to keep your heart in 'the zone' for as much of the 30 second recovery as you can without compromising your recovery, and a walk may do that as well as a jog. As regards judging the distance, it's why I settled on going corner to corner of the rectangle grid in my local park, and set my time accordingly - it's impossible to get the distance wrong. |
Feb 2017
6:26pm, 8 Feb 2017
330 posts
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J2R
I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere, probably many times, in the preceding 134 pages, but I'd prefer not to have to trawl through all this again unless I have to! So a quick question...Given that it is apparently best to keep below your first ventilatory threshold (VT1) for your easy runs, how do people determine what this is, without getting lab measurement? I've read a rule of thumb that it's typically around 77% of your maximum heart rate, but I'm not sure what the evidence for this is, nor whether it's 77% of your working heart rate (Karvonen) or actual maximum. It's what I have tended to go for myself, nonetheless, using absolute HRmax (giving a figure of 136bpm, as opposed to 147bpm if I'd used my working heart rate - really quite a difference). However, I know Canute favours using breathing itself as the key, which seems eminently sensible. I've been breathing in for 4 foot strikes and out for 4 in the last couple of weeks, and find I can manage up to 142-143bpm easily enough doing this. The 'Talk Test' is supposed to be a good indicator but I'm nearly always running by myself and find it difficult to just keep waffling on into thin air. |
Feb 2017
6:35pm, 8 Feb 2017
2,581 posts
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Ninky Nonk
It doesn't really matter exactly where it is to run below it. It's a pretty blurry line anyway and will vary day to day. There is a great big chunk of running BELOW the threshold for you to aim for. Just run in that. |
Feb 2017
6:48pm, 8 Feb 2017
10,610 posts
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Chrisull
J2R - This is where I get confused. Looking at this link: running.competitor.com Quote: "In fact, in most laboratory exercise tests, the ventilatory and lactate thresholds fall close to the same exercise intensity. " So 77% of MHR (176) this would be for me 135bpm. Ok so got to Macmillan calculator, enter my 10k time from Sunday 42.35, which yields: CURRENT TIMES vLT 7:02 (velocity at lactate threshold) vVO2 6:05 (velocity at VO2 max) It had some hills in 10k so I think I'm fair to assume my vLT is round about 6.55 and my vVO2 is round about 6.00. (I could definitely run a 6 minute mile currently). So both of these are expected. Running at my vLT my HR is average 158 max 161. Again expected. SO if ventilatory threshold is virtually same as lactate threshold. And that should be 135bpm. And my actual LT is 158bpm. This is where I get confused. Shouldn't they be the same, if ventilatory threshold and lactate threshold are the same? My pace at 77% would be between 8.30 and 9.00 minute miling. Which bit have I got wrong? |
Feb 2017
6:52pm, 8 Feb 2017
11,364 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
I've only done slow stuff for just over two months and feeling the strongest ever. Endurance seems to have improved no end. Twenty milers are easy.
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Feb 2017
8:10pm, 8 Feb 2017
2,582 posts
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Ninky Nonk
There are two ventilatory thresholds. The first where you start to 'notice' your breathing . The second where you start to 'struggle' for breath. The first vt broadly corresponds with lactate rising above resting levels. The second with 'lactate threshold'. |
Feb 2017
8:29pm, 8 Feb 2017
11,365 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
I'm currently running at a pace when breathing is not that different to walking
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Feb 2017
8:34pm, 8 Feb 2017
2,583 posts
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Ninky Nonk
In fact lactate threshold can be defined in several different ways. If you believe it exists at all. For now I'm guessing we mean anaerobic threshold or equivalent. |
Feb 2017
8:34pm, 8 Feb 2017
331 posts
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J2R
NN, how do I know what the threshold is to run below it? That's the question @Chrisull, as Ninky Nonk said, there's VT1 and VT2. This explains it reasonably well: functionalandperformancefitness.blogspot.co.uk |
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