Polarized training

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J2R
Oct 2015
3:22pm, 8 Oct 2015
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J2R
Thanks for that, NN, meaty stuff. I read it a while back but had forgotten some of it (it's a lot to digest), so it's good to take another look.

Interestingly, one of the specific period workouts for the HM is this: "15 km long run at 102 % RP"

The author cautions that "When adapting these workouts, it may be prudent to aim for the same duration, not distance, for the fast long runs". Given that the runner in question, with a 59:47 HM, running at 102% RP, will take around 41 minutes to do 15km, it means that a very good approximation to such a workout, for me anyway, would be a 10K race, as it would take 36-37 minutes and probably be around 102% of my HM race pace.

I find this significant because I've always felt that one or two 10K races in the last month or so before a target HM have helped me.
Oct 2015
10:01pm, 8 Oct 2015
1,701 posts
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Canute
Hello. I have been away and am delighted to see there has been some interesting discussion while I was away.

With regard to the studies of different types of interval sessions, I agree with the point implied above: there are so many variables that determine response to training (eg genetically determined differences in training response; effects of prior training; both overt and subtle features of study design, that one cannot necessarily conclude that one study is right and another is wrong. We only get an indication of the likely ‘truth’ be examining the design and results of many studies.

The first thing that is clear is that various types of interval sessions do achieve useful increases inI VO2 max. This is a valuable conclusion and supports the conclusion of many coaches.

Coaches often base their views on data that is even more restricted that scientific studies. I think the most important attribute of a coach is the ability to estimate an indviduals needs and to inspire confidence. If we do not have a coach we need to note how well our body is responding to a particular type of session.

I think that Chrisull’s point about different energy systems is important. I also think it is likely that that for highly trained athletes, quite intense sessions are especially valuable.
Oct 2015
10:07pm, 8 Oct 2015
6,615 posts
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100forRNIB
I was worried with your lack of postings, Canute, so pleased to see a measured post from your good-self, hope you are well?
Oct 2015
10:26pm, 8 Oct 2015
5,753 posts
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Rosehip
I too was worried by your absence, good to "see" you Canute :)
Oct 2015
10:58pm, 8 Oct 2015
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Ninky Nonk
You were missed canute.

All this talk of energy systems has me in mind of horwill and 5 pace theory. I believe you are not his strongest advocate but is there anything to be learnt from his theory?
Oct 2015
11:03am, 9 Oct 2015
1,702 posts
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Canute
NN
Many different physiological systems contribute to running performance and to run at our best we must train in way that optimises all of them. Different paces place different emphasis on different physiological systems . However this does not necessarily mean that we need to do regular training at all paces, as Horwill proposed.

For example, many of the physiological adaptations that play a dominant role at tempo pace (e.g. ability to handle acidity) can be trained effectively by a combination of high intensity and low intensity training. On the other hand, the combination of fairly high intensity and fairly long duration makes tempo training quite stressful. Therefore, while I agree partially with Horwill insofar as I think that some training at virtually all paces has apart to play, I do not think we need to spend as much time at sustained 10K pace as Horwill might have recommended.
Oct 2015
12:57pm, 9 Oct 2015
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Ninky Nonk
Nice summary here

brianmac.co.uk

Would you say typical 5 pace plan would fit into polarised training bracket?
Oct 2015
2:12pm, 9 Oct 2015
31,329 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
I'm confused (not hard) why there is MORE recovery for shorter reps
Oct 2015
2:50pm, 9 Oct 2015
1,703 posts
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Canute
NN, yes that is a good summary and covers both the strengths and the limitations of Horwill’s approach. The core notion of multi-pace training is of course now widely accepted and Frank Horwill deserves much of the credit for that.

With regard to limitations, I would note not only the dangers of under-estimating the importance of the differences between athletes in strengths and needs, but also the lack of thought given to the low intensity session that make up about half of the sessions in a Horwill-style programme, yet are scarcely discussed at all. I believe the low intensity session are as important as the high intensity sessions.

As for the question of whether or not a 5 pace program is consistent with Polarised training, yes it is, provided you devote a bit more attention to what you are doing in the low intensity sessions.

HOD, in the session with short repeats, achieving the intended fast pace is crucial, but becomes very difficult without adequate recoveries.
Oct 2015
10:21pm, 9 Oct 2015
31,339 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
Canute that is VERY interesting I have thought for ages short intervals were followed by short rec.

Did a session the other week guy in a club very good athlete and coach did 500 meter reps with 300 jog rec which seems to suit. better than previous 400 meter reps fitting in 2 mins !!!!

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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