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More efficient running style

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-o0o- Mar 2018 10:00pm, 14 Mar 2018 14,440 posts	0 -o0o- SPR, 'form' is completely a different kettle of fish for a 'short' distance runner e.g. less than 10km than for a marathon or ultra runner.
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Mar 2018 10:06pm, 14 Mar 2018 322 posts	0 SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) SPR Perhaps you're thinking of falling as 'falling down' rather than 'falling out of balance'. Remember, you cannot move without destroying your balance. Period.
BanjoBax Mar 2018 10:44pm, 14 Mar 2018 4,469 posts	0 BanjoBax Seem to remember Michael Johnson in documentary saying the crossover for importance of efficiency was about 200m+, at 100m efficiency less important. He said his style more compact hence efficient, he did have a fairly POSEy style.
SPR Mar 2018 8:51am, 15 Mar 2018 25,659 posts	0 SPR Michael Johnson works with sprinters on technique and I've seen him talk about form. His description of the key to sprinting fast fits with what Peter Weyand research has shown.
Canute Mar 2018 9:38pm, 18 Mar 2018 1,831 posts	0 Canute SSLHP, ‘falling forwards’ provides a useful prompt to get your legs forward quickly enough to keep you upright as you accelerate during the first few steps at the start of a run. However when running at constant speed, the any rotation in the head-forward direction after mid-stance (the ‘pose’) must be balanced by an equal amount of rotation in the head-backwards direction before mid-stance, if you wish to avoid falling flat on you face. The biomechanics described by Dr Romanov does not describe what happens when humans run. There is no fall after the 'pose'. Observation of slow motion videos clearly shows that after mid-stance the body (and its COG) rises in response to a push against the ground. However despite the faulty biomechanics, I think that the mental imagery encouraged by Pose can help some recreational runners. Because the triple extension at hip, knee and ankle that lift the body off stance must be timed precisely to within a few thousandths of a second, attempts to consciously push against the ground are likely to disrupt the required automatic coordination. The Pose mantra ('pose, fall, pull') encourages a focus on the pull at the point of lift-off, thereby decreasing risk of an unhelpful delayed push. Dr Romanov’s emphasis on the dominant role of the hamstrings in the pull is also biomechanically inaccurate. The required transition from triple extension at lift off, to flexion at all three joints in swing phase requires much more subtle action of multiple muscles than implied by the hamstring pull. But again, the Pose mantra can help some recreational runners to initiate the required flexion. Overall the biomechanics of Pose is not what actually happens, but for some recreational runners, the mental images can be helpful. However if you want to be maximally efficient it is probably best not to rely on inaccurate imagery.
Canute Mar 2018 9:42pm, 18 Mar 2018 1,832 posts	0 Canute Oops, the combination of ' immediately preceding ) produced Fetch's mischievous winky. Was that a Freudian slip?
GlennR Mar 2018 9:45pm, 18 Mar 2018 34,388 posts	0 GlennR Thanks for that Canute.
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Mar 2018 9:42am, 19 Mar 2018 323 posts	0 SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Canute Pose often gets dissed over this, so I'd like to defend the fall. Many people think when Pose mentions fall, or fall forward, it's ignoring the fact that we know the CoM rises. This is not the case. We know the CoM rises due to an involuntary/reactive vertical push at mid-stance (spring-like). This occurs as the body rotates forward around the support foot -falling out of balance. The combination of the arc rotation and upward lift gives you the curved and rising path the Com takes after mid-stance. There is no getting away from the fact that we are falling out of balance! Many don't seem to realise that gravity gives us body weight and without it, human locomotion would not be possible. We center our body weight over our base of support to be upright and balanced. But to move, we must destroy this balance -gravity gives non of us a choice in the matter! This is what's referred to as falling. Or, as Leonardo De Vinci put it: "Motion is created by the destruction of balance, that is, of equality of weight for nothing can move by itself which does not leave its state of balance and that thing moves most rapidly which is furthest from its balance."
Canute Mar 2018 10:20am, 19 Mar 2018 1,833 posts	0 Canute SSLHP, Gravity plays a crucial role in in running but the description of this in the theory of Pose is misleading to the point of being seriously wrong. If you examine the vector diagram of forces acting during stance, presented by Dr Romanov and his colleague in manuscripts such as Romanov & Fletcher (Sports Biomechanics, 2007) you will find that he clearly has represented the magnitudes of the forces wrong in a manner that seriously distorts the true situation. Much as I respect the genius of Leonardo Da Vinci he lived almost 2 centuries before the cardinal principles of classical mechanics were established and his statement about the essential role of loss of balance in motion is wrong. As I remarked above, I think that for some recreational runners, the mental images evoked by Pose can be helpful. However if you want to be maximally efficient it is probably best not to rely on inaccurate imagery.
SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Mar 2018 10:28am, 19 Mar 2018 324 posts	0 SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss) Canute Thanks for your comments. Appreciated. We know we can't push ourselves forward (so-called extensor paradox), so where do you suggest our acceleration comes from if it's not gravitational torque?