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Nov 2011
1:12pm, 17 Nov 2011
1,274 posts
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curly45
Interesting post SPR but considering half the world and their aunt are obessed with intervals as the only way to improve at running, a bit of base might be good for people 
Agree about not lurching from one focus to another without prep work though (which as Duck stated is where the phasing gets complicated).
NN - strides and MP running will get you all the baking soda benefits you need *if* your focus is building miles then you will be tired so maximally stressing your body isn't a good idea...
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Nov 2011
2:08pm, 17 Nov 2011
732 posts
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The Duckinator
Agreed SPR, going from one phase to another without a transition is probably asking for trouble.
For example one might want to go from an upper aerobic run in base (around MP pace) to a threshold (60 minute race-pace) run in the strength phase, you could transition from endurance -> strength by firstly making the run progressive from MP -> HMP -> threshold, then cruise intervals @ threshold (3*1M w/60s recovery) then a straight threshold run. You would firstly be exposing the body to threshold pace, then running the volume you wanted with recoveries, then the volume with no recoveries.
Or for intervals, if you want to focus on 5k you could start off by running 400s @ 5k pace, with 200/400 very easy jog recovery (this could be done in base as it isn't going to trouble VO2 max, and as long as the recoveries are long & slow enough acidosis won't be a problem), and as your training progresses you can reduce jog recoveries/increase the pace of the recoveries/increase the distance of the 5k section.
Not answering anyone's questions but general ramblings
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Nov 2011
9:22pm, 17 Nov 2011
19,482 posts
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Dave A
I did the intervals session that I mentioned on the track which I found really useful for working on running form and efficiency. After I got into the new year I upped it to 8 x 1k reps and after a couple of decent middle distance fell races I got the 10k result I was after. I wouldn't say I was icing the cake at the same time as cooking, more just making a better mixture to ice at a later date.
As it happens I stepped away from speedwork after my 10k PB and trained for a Bob Graham Round which, for me, meant no speed work, but plenty of base style, slower, miles.
With different targets in mind for next year I'm now approaching the coming few months in exactly the same way as I did last year. It seems to work for me. As long as I don't go nuts on the faster stuff I should be fine.
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Nov 2011
9:25pm, 17 Nov 2011
11,605 posts
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Fenland Runner
Until you've maxed performance via base work why bother with intervals seeing as they have inherently higher risk of injury?
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Nov 2011
9:32pm, 17 Nov 2011
19,485 posts
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Dave A
To be fair, since returning from a 3 month inury lay off early 2009 I had done little speedwork in the following 18 months. I started the training with an interval session after a very easy month to get some energy back in my legs, so you could say I'd already done the base work for an extended period. However all the workI was doing was gearing during November and December last year had the BG in mind. That included getting faster. I did the sessions based on not maxing myself out on the reps, but finishing them feeling as if I could go on and finishing the session feeling as if I could do more. At the end of the day I want to get faster. I appreciate that base mileage builds a solid foundation, but the speedwork I was doing, and am doing now helped and will help me achieve my goals.
I don't see any harm in doing speed work at any time as long as you get the right session and don't overdo it. Once a week at the moment seems to be a good 'un for me.
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Nov 2011
9:40pm, 17 Nov 2011
11,608 posts
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Fenland Runner
I can relate to P&D and they seem to advocate training schedules with 'low' monotony. So even during base, every run shouldn't be exactly the same pace and the same distance. It should be varied but that doesn't need to stretch to intervals. Personally, even though I rarely do intervals I find tempo session more helpful. Again, personally, find interval sessions a lot easier that a tempo run. Horses for courses, I suppose.
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Nov 2011
9:50pm, 17 Nov 2011
15,578 posts
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SPR
Intervals/reps can be different things. Saying you do interval/reps does not tell us anything about what you do. It's like saying you do continuous runs.
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Nov 2011
9:54pm, 17 Nov 2011
11,610 posts
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Fenland Runner
I do continuous running as well Sometimes....
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Nov 2011
11:43am, 18 Nov 2011
19,490 posts
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Dave A
Does continuos running include pee stops
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Nov 2011
12:48pm, 18 Nov 2011
10,550 posts
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DeeGee
Can someone quickly clarify what base training is, please? In the past, I've been sharpening my pace for the whole season as 5k races have been interspersed with the longer stuff. I really want to concentrate on 13.1-26.2 next season, so although the occasional 5k wouldn't go amiss as a speed session, I don't necessarily want to do specific trainng for them over the next couple of months.
Previously, I've done three sessions a week - intervals (of various flavours), a tempo run at around HM pace, and an LSR at anything between MP-45secs and MP-2.30. I'm moving to four sessions a week with two runs being 5 mile commutes, and as I will be carrying stuff to work with me I don't feel that anything too speedy would be without risk. So recently the commute has been at MP-90secs. There'll be an occasional short 25-30 mins treadmill session as well making a fifth session.
Am I going about things the right way, by removing the pure speed from the equation and concentrating this winter on time on my feet? I have a suspicion that I may have been doing too much fast stuff before. Is MP-90secs too slow? I'll be changing my intervals to a strides session at about an average of 7 miles in an hour.
I'd be interested to know more about how to periodise my year better.
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