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Nov 2011
4:16pm, 16 Nov 2011
726 posts
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The Duckinator
James- generally walkback to recover. These shouldn't be taxing on your breathing at all, you should stop before you feel tired. General 15-20s is good.
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Nov 2011
4:24pm, 16 Nov 2011
6,849 posts
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James1982a
I see. Thank you 
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Nov 2011
4:57pm, 16 Nov 2011
1,269 posts
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curly45
I do jogging between my strides unless walk-back is specified by coach
Duckie - arent you MD basing though and therefore will need some higher intensity work in order to prep you for even higher stuff in MD training? Also you arent building miles are you? Just goes to prove my point that base is different depending on the event you are doing it for
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Nov 2011
6:20pm, 16 Nov 2011
14 posts
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Ninky Nonk
Thanks everybody who has commented.
Stupid question then - if not to do intervals? Why not?
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Nov 2011
6:27pm, 16 Nov 2011
727 posts
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The Duckinator
Curly - yes of course you are right, although you could argue that what I'm doing is just formal strides with a bit more gusta about them. Base is different for everyone, although miles should be emphasised - unless you're a sprinter, obviously.
Ninky - because base is more for building aerobic base and aerobic efficiency, not getting in the hard workouts (of which you only need limited amounts of). Base building, with plenty of miles and upper aerobic runs (about 3 - 4 hours race pace) will allow you to improve much more when you run intervals later on.
Running 'classic' intervals in base will ensure you plateau very quickly, whereas taking a patient, long-term view will ensure when you do run them you'll be at a higher level than if you ran them all the time!
Think of it like base being your cake base (the sponge) and intervals being icing - now you wouldn't want a cake made entirely of icing right? The more sponge you have the more icing you can put on later.
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Nov 2011
6:46pm, 16 Nov 2011
487 posts
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Mr Alf Tupper
im currently building a xc base for the national in feburary which will be 7.5 mile and incorperating intervals in to it. im doing 2 sessions a week of intervals that cover 10 miles plus and a tempo run. for example last night i done 40 minutes of 200m on at 80% and 200m off at 50%. i got 55 200's in covering 11k. i then do 6 x 160m strides faster to keep the legs going over with a jog back recov. On top of that i get 4 miles for my warm up and warm down.
What im trying to say is IMO the miles i covered last night will be more benificial than if i had just ran them at a consitant pace. You can get the miles in and do intervals.
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Nov 2011
10:26pm, 16 Nov 2011
6,852 posts
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James1982a
I wouldn't class base as any speedwork. I think Duckinator pretty much covers it. The idea of base training as I understand it is to build up some consistent miles, a bit of strength in the legs, and also, if you've just done a target race it offers a recovery as well. It's also intended to help avoid injury while building that base.
It the foundations. If you build a house without a solid foundation, or any foundation at all, eventually it will collapse, sooner rather than later. Cakes? Hell I'll eat cake without icing on
Jack Daniels advocates a training plan of 4 phases of 6 weeks.
Base training = 6 weeks easy paced runs only, including a long run & possibly strides
whatever distance you're training for. For a complete beginner, or coming back from a long injury at least 6 months of base building.
Second Phase* (for marathon training) (off the top of my head - I think he may include hillwork but I don't bother with that: Reps**, A Tempo Run and a Long run. All other runs easy paced. 6 weeks of
Third Phase (again for marathon training): Intervals**, Tempo Run, Long Run. The rest easy paced runs. 6 weeks of.
Fourth Phase(ditto): 2 Tempo runs, One long run, the rest easy paced runs. 6 weeks off.
* Each phase has a name but I can't remember what. Off the top of my head the 4th is called the Peak Phase.
** Jack Daniels differentiates Reps and Interval mainly by the recovery period between each work-bout. Reps are slightly faster with longer recoveries. Intervals are slightly slower with shorter recoveries and do tend to be a longer distance than reps.
Obviously the number of weeks for each phase can be adjusted as you wish but I'm pretty sure, without checking that Jack Daniels likes to emphasise the importance of the base training above all else.
Incidentally, training for the shorter distances still keeps the base period but for the second phase instead of the tempo run you would do another reps or interval session.
Other coaching plans are available.
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Nov 2011
10:26pm, 16 Nov 2011
6,853 posts
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James1982a
Curly - if your jogging between strides for 100 metres?
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Nov 2011
11:31pm, 16 Nov 2011
15,575 posts
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SPR
Reps = complete recovery
Intervals = Incomplete recovery
Speed, recovery and distance are your three variables, and will the effect of the interval/rep session.
Strides - don't get the point in jogging inbetween, no benefit.
Base = aerobic, keep anaerobic running to a minimum.
You can run fast short or long, and with the right speed and recovery not be anaerobic, so speed work can be done.
Doesn't mean you should though, depends on what shape/condition you are.
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Nov 2011
9:01am, 17 Nov 2011
1,270 posts
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curly45
Not sure why James - I never thought to ask, but would guess its because strides for me are turnover efforts concentrating on form - so I am running them at about mile pace probably (nothing too fast sometimes slower).
The 100m strides are 6 at the end of a run with some steady running in and involve slow job back to start to allow recovery.
The 75m strides are 10 in an easy run of 8 miles - the avg pace of this run remains the same as the fast efforts are negated by the jogging between strides.
Alf (love the name by the way):
'What im trying to say is IMO the miles i covered last night will be more benificial than if i had just ran them at a consitant pace. You can get the miles in and do intervals.'
Yes indeed you can do that, but its training then, not base training which as SPR demonstrates is keeping anaerobic running to a mimimum. If your target A race is Feb then you wouldnt be doing base mileage now, you would most likely be doing a pre-comp period of mileage and sharpening, before you reduce mileage and then get comp ready? Duck is good with mesocycles and could probably explain that better
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