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Aug 2019
4:25pm, 10 Aug 2019
15 posts
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slowby
Actually I still haven't quite got it - why not do 5K at 5K pace? Or further?
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Aug 2019
4:27pm, 10 Aug 2019
3,105 posts
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K5 Gus
The half marathon is a fully aerobic event ( apart maybe for a sprint in the last 50m to beat your running partner ! ), so raw speed is not that important.
Interval sessions are all about increasing your VO2 max level, not your basic speed. P&D schedules don't do any as short as 400m, their intervals are in the range 600m - 1600m. They also say that the shorter ones can be done at nearer 3k race speed, longer ones at 5k race speed, so a slight difference of opinion with HH in both length and pace.
If you want to improve your raw speed, then better doing strides, ie 10-15 * 100m where you accelerate up to full speed over first 70m, then maintain that for 30m.
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Aug 2019
4:52pm, 10 Aug 2019
16 posts
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slowby
Thanks all I've learnt a lot!
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Aug 2019
4:56pm, 10 Aug 2019
34,587 posts
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Nellers
Slowby, doing a full 5k at your best 5k pace is bloody hard. If it wasn't you'd be able to go faster and set a better PB every week.
Breaking it down into manageable chunks makes it more likely that you'll manage the pace throughout, and that you'll recover from the session better.
If all you do is try to run everything as fast as you can you don't actually get faster. You just get knackered (and probably injured too).
Hal really does know what he's doing. Trust him. Trust the plan. Trust the process.
Also, Royal Parks was my first Half in 2009. It's lovely. A bit pricey but really well organised, interesting course round the London sights for the first half, then round Hyde Park for the second half. Good support and fairly flat. You might also see a lot of celebs there too (Nell Mcandrews and James Cracknell ticked off when I did it).
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Aug 2019
6:56pm, 10 Aug 2019
8,984 posts
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rf_fozzy
Sorry, I don't like intervals at 5k pace. I know several of the popular marathon training plans use it.
If I'm doing intervals, I'll do them at interval pace. Similarly repetitions at rep pace. Threshold at Threshold pace etc.
I know people will disagree with me, but I think there is a value to fast intervals, but here's the caveat - do them properly with proper recoveries (I usually do them with at least 1/2 recovery times, usuallly more).
There is an argument to be had for doing intervals in marathon training at 5k pace, but that's all about overall fatigue from the increased volume of training.
I generally tend follow Jack Daniels (Daniels' Running formula) methods. It seems to work for me.
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Aug 2019
7:00pm, 10 Aug 2019
8,985 posts
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rf_fozzy
(Having said the above, I think my interval pace on top form is only ~8s/km faster than my 5k PB pace, but that 5k PB was set on a downhill course)
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Aug 2019
9:23pm, 10 Aug 2019
8,293 posts
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larkim
Not sure what your 5k pace actually is, but I wonder if your 5k PB was say 35 minutes, intervals at 5k pace would provide a different stimulus than if your 5k PB pace was 18 minutes. The sustainable pace for a 35 minute activity cannot be the same as the sustainable pace for an 18 minute one (correct me if I'm wrong!).
But the overall point is to stress your body close to a limit, and then recover a bit, and repeat etc. If you're truly running your 5k to your best, then running 3-5k of reps at 5k pace, even if the reps are as short as 400m, will feel like bloody hard work. If it feels easy, I'd suggest your 5k PB pace is very soft and your should be able to run much faster at 5k as a race.
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Aug 2019
9:31pm, 10 Aug 2019
8,294 posts
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larkim
How about thinking it the other way round. Run 8-10x400m as fast as you can with all of them evenly paced and the final one perhaps a smidge faster if you can manage it.
Then next time you run a 5k, run it at the pace you ran those intervals (or perhaps just a couple of seconds per mile slower), as that might give you an indication of what your 5k overall pace really should be if you're putting enough into it.
That might sound harsh, so sorry if it does, but I'm not convinced everyone runs 5k to their best ability. Personal experience with some acquaintances gives me that insight.
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Aug 2019
9:32pm, 10 Aug 2019
34,590 posts
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Nellers
Kind of agree with your first point Larkim. No-one can maintain their best 18 minute pace for 35 minutes, otherwise they're not trying for their best 18 minutes.
I think for a 35 minute 5k runner, though, it's still going to feel like pushing that limit to do pieces at that pace, and it's going to be quicker (by a significant margin) than their realistic planned marathon pace.
And now I've reread it I think that was the point you made in your second paragraph, so I'll get my coat.;-)
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Aug 2019
9:34pm, 10 Aug 2019
8,986 posts
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rf_fozzy
Larkim - was that Q for me?
At my best (which I'm nowhere near currently), my interval pace was 3:15-3:25/km (ish) - this was using my 10k/5k times at the time to estimate a vo2max from Daniels Running Formula (2nd ed), which was then used to give interval times for that vo2max.
My 5k PB was 18.00 on a downhill course, so 3:36/km.
So my interval pace was quite a bit quicker than my 5k pace. I used to do 200 and 400m reps, intervals from 400-1200 and then occasionally threshold/tempo intervals 1000-1600m (more regularly I used to do threshold runs by treating the club run as a hard hour's run, which for me was threshold pace).
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