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Aug 2020
5:40pm, 24 Aug 2020
11,768 posts
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larkim
LOL Daz, I could slow down on the hills I suppose. But I doubt I'd enjoy that!
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Aug 2020
6:45pm, 24 Aug 2020
1,714 posts
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Brunski
Larkim, I see from your log that you quickly built to decent mileage and then you seem to be coming off that to do lower volume, more low intensity, heart rate stuff. I really don't think this will produce the results you desire. I may have missed an injury, so apologies if this is the case.
I'd be inclined to use low HR to slowly build a big base, yes I know training at lower HR takes more time to cover the same mileage, and from there incorporate a little tempo/threshold stuff (holding that mileage), and then add a bit of speed/intervals/target pace reps when approaching your target race.
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Aug 2020
5:17pm, 25 Aug 2020
35,058 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
After 4 weeks of 80/20 (been mostly 90/10) I’ve been relatively disciplined and it’s going well.
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Aug 2020
7:31pm, 25 Aug 2020
11,769 posts
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larkim
I've been inconsistent this year with motivation and some niggles Brunski so my log isn't particularly useful! Currently I'm in a "sod the HR training" phase and doing a few weeks of Faster Road Racing with the sole goal of being sub 40 by the end of September for my first post lockdown race. Though I do stick to Z2 (mostly) for the easy runs, which for me is still an improvement over how I used to behave!! As someone once pointed out, as I don't really take things seriously...
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Aug 2020
9:25am, 26 Aug 2020
1,715 posts
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Brunski
Sounds a perfectly good approach to me, everyone has their preferred way of training and keeping part of it easy (rather than straying into the grey) seems sensible to me 👍
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Aug 2020
8:19pm, 26 Aug 2020
16,474 posts
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Chrisull
larks your approach isn't actually that far off the mark. With HR zones, a mistaken assumption is that because you can train in Z2 and your HR drops after some weeks of training for Z2- so say for me my average HR for a 5 mile run goes from 128 to 122 for the same run and I'm getting quicker too. BUT that doesn't mean my HR will concurrently drop in the same way for Z3 or Z4. (and indeed it NEVER does) I will still be doing 141 in Z3. The only way for me to significantly decrease my Z3 HR is specific Z3 training. And that training should be at the bottom of Z3 for my HR. Tempo runs remain my most effective way of decreasing my HR in Z3. For others it may be something else.
So when you are training in Z2, you are reaping the benefits of Z2 training. You will burn out less quickly, you will have less injuries, you are less likely to overtrain, you will help build muscle, you will burn fat, you will increase mitochrondria (a specific benefit of Z1/Z2 training). All good reasons for doing most of your training in this zone. But you will not suddenly see your comparative Z3 and Z4 HR decline - because you are not training in them. You may see a little decrease (* see below for my take), but nothing to write home about. So when you do all your harder runs, in Z3 or Z4 you will see the benefits of training in those zones. If your body withstands the rigour (and as you get older it becomes less able to), and you don't overtrain you will see quicker benefits than with HR training. So if you want to train hard, don't be dissuaded, but if you want to pursue HR training be aware of the benefits it offers and why you're doing it.
* I see the decoupling between zones as akin to say weight training, if you do arm lifts, your legs won't get stronger. You may get residual knock ons (so if you're standing when you do arm lift, perhaps you have to balance and that will probably get a little boost to back/trunk etc), but don't mistake that for the same as specifically training in them. Of course HR training isn't solely about training the heart or the cardiac system.
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Aug 2020
8:48pm, 26 Aug 2020
31,070 posts
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SPR
I doubt your lack of improvement in Z3 is down to your aerobic system not being better equipped to deal with Z3 running. It'll be down to efficiency at that pace which is more than just the heart, otherwise pro cyclists, skiers and other great endurance athletes could easily be pro runners.
The zones are a training aid not some scientific barrier where there's a specific change at each level.
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Aug 2020
8:49pm, 26 Aug 2020
5,676 posts
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Mouseytongue
Very informative, Chris. Thank you.
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Aug 2020
9:07pm, 26 Aug 2020
52,262 posts
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GlennR
Indeed.
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Aug 2020
11:03pm, 26 Aug 2020
16,475 posts
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Chrisull
Yes, true SPR, totally, I was getiing at indirectly within the zones specific changes happen (such as lactate thresholds/ the venitlatory thresholds), which correlate to particular zones - ie you don't breach your high ventilatory threshold in Z1 or Z2 and tempo running doesn't breach the anaerobic thresholds, but yes it is much more nuanced as you point out, and particular to the individual.
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Daniels Running Formula. The Definitive Wire.
Jul 2023