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Jan 2007
10:35pm, 5 Jan 2007
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*base
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Jan 2007
10:36pm, 5 Jan 2007
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I have to admit that sometimes I cant resist a hill. To start with I used to walk them but now I run them but I can also run a lot of them below 70% now.
Elbee, amazing on some downhills actually, come to think of it the pace must really be up without me realising it...
Size10, I'd say to start with at least there would be no problem in treating your LSR as a recovery ceiling run i.e. below 70%. Especially if the Saturday involves intervals. I'd err on the side of slowness but perhaps not on all of them. Do some as LSR pace which will be something like 90 seconds to two mins slower than marathon pace if memory serves?
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Jan 2007
10:43pm, 5 Jan 2007
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Again - there are many schools of thought on that one
MP +60 secs
MP +10%
MP +10-20%
The trick with the long run is to keep it slow - and I think that under 70% is eminently sensible.
My LSR today was run at MP + 1:50
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Jan 2007
12:04pm, 6 Jan 2007
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B.B.
Hi guys.
Going back a bit to a question from Wheabs... my 70% recovery ceiling level is 157 (similar to el Bee, i think). My 85% is 180.
Just got back from a 5K race, where I averaged 185bpm. So I think that means I could have pushed it more. Certainly felt that way. My max was 200, which is consistent with my Max test on the treadmill (203).
How do people's HR change in a short race, like a 5K? It took almost 5 minutes for my HR to get up to around 90%, despite working very hard.
HILLS - Parker says that it's ok to cheat a little bit and let your HR drift about 5 beats over your 70% level. That way you can keep running
Good stuff. Keep it coming 
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Jan 2007
2:13pm, 6 Jan 2007
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M
I've read that bit now, around P65. Slightly confused also, it hasn't sunk into my brain in a clear way
Says it's duration of runs not effort building the microwhaters, then about rats and 120 mins being optimal, humans similar to rats. I took from after that you're not going to build many more "little power houses" (can't spell the word) after 2 hours.
Then says that fits in with todays training theories that say max mileage shouldn't be above 80 - 140 miles a week and after that you won't get any more benefit & could cause problems. I take it that would be for the more elite runner, my brain as a snail pace runner can't take in max 2 hour runs and anything like 80 miles per week Need to get out a calculator.
elBee, thanks for the explanation. So regular 2 hour runs would build me optimum "power houses" to kickstart my fat burning early enough and be efficient enough to delay hitting the wall for a marathon. But primary aim of time on my feet over that duration during marathon training would be to condition my mind & body? If I ever run a marathon under 4.30 I'd be dancing around everywhere and waving a flag shouting about it for 6 months 2 hour training runs would get me round a 1/2!
He did say that for a marathon you're using 3 stages of energy, glycogen for first mins then at the end fat burning. Distances over a marathon then you go onto other forms, anyone know what these are? Will google later but if anyone know's more I'd be happy to hear about it.
Not that I really need to know about any of this in detail being a short stumpy housewife who likes to run a little. However it's interesting
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Jan 2007
2:33pm, 6 Jan 2007
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Making_Tracks
BB... Bit of a beginner me, but do you think you need to do more of a warm up before the race? One of the guys in our running club ran about 2 or 3 miles before we did our 5 mile Pudding Race before Christmas. He got a fantastic time.
The HRM training seems to be working for me. I'm beginning to get faster. Be interesting to see what affect it has on my first 10k of the year at Chichester. Hoping to beat my Brighton PB.
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Jan 2007
4:02pm, 6 Jan 2007
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BB, yes and the fitter you get the harder it gets to get the HR up :-).
Like anything it's a guide so there isn't anything wrong with letting it creep up a bit for the odd hill. Just so long as the whole run has a reasonable average at or below recovery ceiling...
Moschops, it would seem that anything over two hours training would be a waste of time. However, although it does seem to say that in the book, the general concensus with regard to marathon training definitely is that time on feet is very important and that training for as long in time as you expect it to take you to do the marathon (or as near to as you can) is very beneficial indeed. However, these long runs of between 20 and 23 miles are limited in number to between two and four usually in a typical marathon schedule...
MT, not sure what warm ups BB does but yes, I would have thought the shorter the race, the more important the warm up. I always warm up for at least 15 mins unless doing marathon and it becomes less of an issue because it does you good to ease into it slowly...
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Jan 2007
4:04pm, 6 Jan 2007
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Dochart
BB - your 5k race comment is interesting. just been reading the HR training chapter in Bob Gover's 'competetive runners handbook'. he suggests that racers should get to within 5-10 beats of their MHR around the mile from home mark of a 5k or 10k race. that would suggest that you might expect your peak HR to be 190-195 during a 5k race. i've never worn a HR monitor during a race, so can't confirm this from experience.
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Jan 2007
4:15pm, 6 Jan 2007
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B.B.
MT - I did about 10 minutes warmup before the race today, which is more than I usually do for a 5K. I normally just stretch a bit and do a little bit of jogging/strides. In fact, my PB was set after very little warmup in October. I think a 10-15 min warmup is perfect. As Ian says, for a marathon a warmup doesn't really do much. You should be setting out easy anyway
Sounds like your training is coming along nicely. I hope it has the same effect on me (newbie as well)
Moschops - I agree with Ian. My minimimum for a marathon is three 20 milers. I will try to get 4 or 5 done this year, with at least 2 of them taking longer than I hope for the full marathon.
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Jan 2007
5:27pm, 6 Jan 2007
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Running for an hour or more is optimal for mitochondia building! And yes - in general the benefit in that regard over two hours is pretty marginal!
Had a great run today
On the back of yesterdays 18 miler - did 11 miles in a sniff over an hour and a half at an Average HR of 157 - bang smack on 70%WHR
What's more - there was spring in my legs and it was a really enjoyable - if WET one
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