Heart rate
1 lurker |
300 watchers
Nov 2018
12:59pm, 14 Nov 2018
6,035 posts
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larkim
There's a self fulfilling prophesy that faster runners train faster. It would make no sense at all if Eliud Kipchoge trained at the same paces as a 3hr runner. Surely (in the context of this thread at least) it's about training within HR parameters. There are debates about the volumes that should be done within those parameters (and the volumes that should be done full stop), but the overall goal should be to shift the parameters. Whether there is a different approach to the training which shifts the parameters, vs one which optimises race performances one those parameters are established / unmoving, is an intriguing question. The question is whether two runners with identical HR parameters, body weight, muscle types, mentality, diet etc both trained the same volume for a fixed period up to a specific race, with the only difference being (say) 30s per mile in terms of the volume building runs average pace, would one come out faster than the other on race day. Is there academic paperwork out there which proves this either way? |
Nov 2018
1:05pm, 14 Nov 2018
1,531 posts
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J2R
Interestingly, I myself now certainly run 8 minute mile pace at a much lower heart rate than I did 4-5 years ago. But I don't actually run 5K races any faster. Not sure why that is, although age is probably a factor, sadly!
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Nov 2018
1:28pm, 14 Nov 2018
17,995 posts
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flanker
I think larkim has nailed it there - the fetch data doesn't so much "indicates the faster you train for a marathon, the faster you will run that marathon" but that the people who are disposed to run a faster marathon (for whatever reason, genetics, training, etc.) will train at a faster pace. This stands whether we are talking at 60% MHR or 90%. Until we can correlate race and training pace against HR it's kind of meaningless, especially in the context of this thread. I set all my PBs from 5k to 100 miler a few years ago, about 10 years into my running 'career', on the back of ultra training which was a combination of long, slow, low-intensity running and lots of walking. |
Nov 2018
1:29pm, 14 Nov 2018
1,199 posts
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Brunski
Chrisull, have you thought that you might have been training faster but at similar intensity levels? For example I'm now marathon training for Valencia, and my easy runs are getting quicker but at the same % of heart rate. At the start of the tail end of last year when I started laying some proper base mileage for London one of my go-to runs is 60 minutes at >70% max HR (about 60% using the Karvonen method). Back in January I was getting in a shade over 7 miles in this time, these days I can occasionally get in 8 miles in on the same route. Which means I'm training more in terms of mileage each week, at a quicker pace, without investing any more time to running (not strictly true as I'm marathon training). |
Nov 2018
2:26pm, 14 Nov 2018
411 posts
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SSLHP (Shoes smell like horse piss)
During my marathon training I performed the HR time-trial I mentioned earlier. Here's how my paces increased in just 6 weeks of pretty much all easy running drive.google.com |
Nov 2018
3:40pm, 14 Nov 2018
65,341 posts
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Gobi
It's a can of worms indeed If you train to HR and stick to certain rules you will either run faster as you go through your plan or run the same pace for less effort. Then it depends on how you translate the data. I used to enjoy running the same pace for less effort So that I could focus on really nailing my speedwork. |
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Nov 2018
3:47pm, 14 Nov 2018
1,533 posts
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J2R
Gobi, I think that is a salient point - if you run the easy stuff at a lower HR, you have more chance of really going for it on the speedwork.
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Nov 2018
4:07pm, 14 Nov 2018
16,935 posts
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Dvorak
Geordie girl, I had a look at your two most recent bits of training. Do you think those HR figures are correct? I realise that the down and up of the runs has quite an effect, is there somewhere flattish you could do a run for reference? A track would be ideal, failing that maybe round a football pitch. Not for a max HR test: but a warm up and 4 or 5 laps progressive, to give you an idea of where easy and hard effort are around just now. Ps for someone back a page, the "long slow runs make long slow runners" quote goes back to Gordon Pirie in the 50s: his short book on running may be available to download online. |
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Nov 2018
4:16pm, 14 Nov 2018
16,936 posts
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Dvorak
A blog précis of, and link to, the Pirie book feetus.co.uk |
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Nov 2018
4:49pm, 14 Nov 2018
65,342 posts
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Gobi
DV - I READ Pirie and like all things you need a full picture to go with a quote or 2. Everything comes down to balance.
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